Poorly Veloce

Anything to do with the 1200 Corsaro series
backfat1187
Posts: 124
Joined: 13 Mar 2011 23:11
Location: Leicestershire UK
Location: Leicester, UK

Poorly Veloce

Post by backfat1187 »

M40, lane 3, 90ish in top, dropped to one cylinder. Pulled onto shoulder, clutch in, motor stops. Checked all fuses, relays, connections. Fuel pump primes. Turned over but wouldn't fire. It didn't even try. Tried again with Mr RACs jump leads but would no longer turn over, battery volts dropped to around 5 volts and leads got VERY hot as if the starter is shorting to ground. Got recovered home.
The motor turns over ok with a ratchet. No horrible noises or unusual mechanical resistance.
Was hoping to make the ride on Sunday but not looking good at the moment. Rubbish.
I shall have a proper look at it on Saturday and report back....
backfat1187
Posts: 124
Joined: 13 Mar 2011 23:11
Location: Leicestershire UK
Location: Leicester, UK

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by backfat1187 »

Broken rear cam chain. Tensioner seems to be fine. Clearance check not due for another 4000 miles. Cams don't appear to have any abnormal wear, the part I can see anyway.
Looking down the intake with the throttle bodies off, both intake valves are still present, look in good shape and are closed. The cam shaft seems to indicate the exhaust poppets are in a similar position. Hopefully they stopped that way while the piston merrily continued with it's duties. I'll get the head off tomorrow and have a proper look inside.
Mmm, do I feel lucky...
Gary D
Posts: 195
Joined: 29 May 2016 20:31
Location: Stoke Golding, Warks

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by Gary D »

Ayup Jim

How's it going with the Veloce? Are you any the wiser/happier after getting the head off? I'm sorry I didn't get to meet you today, but hope events soon take a turn for the better.

All the best,

Gary
backfat1187
Posts: 124
Joined: 13 Mar 2011 23:11
Location: Leicestershire UK
Location: Leicester, UK

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by backfat1187 »

Hi Gary,
Didn't get time to remove the head at the weekend (too busy chuntering about missing the rideout). Going to have a crack tomorrow. I'll need to fetch the flywheel off too and see what's happened down that end. I'm expecting much mechanical interference with the starter mechanism as that would explain why the engine would easily turn using a ratchet but the starter motor wouldn't turn it over. Pictures to follow...
Cheers
Jim
Gary D
Posts: 195
Joined: 29 May 2016 20:31
Location: Stoke Golding, Warks

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by Gary D »

Hi Jim

Good luck with the exploratory today ..I hope the starter isn't wedged to tightly & you can make a good assessment of the problem. I've a lot of workshop bumpf from the last owner, so if there's anything that's a head scratcher I might be able to help in some small way?

Catch up soon Jim

Best regards

Gary
backfat1187
Posts: 124
Joined: 13 Mar 2011 23:11
Location: Leicestershire UK
Location: Leicester, UK

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by backfat1187 »

Thanks Gary, I may well take you up on that sometime soon.
Got the head off this afternoon and found that the valves, piston crown and cylinder bore appear to be unmarked. Fortune saw to it that the valves were closed when the chain went.
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I knew it was running a bit rich, but not that rich. Fuelling adjustments required.
Gary D
Posts: 195
Joined: 29 May 2016 20:31
Location: Stoke Golding, Warks

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by Gary D »

Hi Jim

Great news that the valve gear & cylinders are in good shape...you're in with a fighting chance now! Give me a shout if there's a way I can help.

Best regards

Gary
Steve Brown
Posts: 1390
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:44
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by Steve Brown »

Hope you have had a lucky escape, I'm wondering though, what made the cam chain break? I always thought those types of chain were virtually indestructible? If the chain just curled up and rested somewhere without damaging the cases too badly then you really were doubly lucky :)
I must get a go on one of these modern Morinis one day, to see if I could live with a bike way faster than I ever was? :oops: A Granpasso does sort of appeal already.... :roll:
All donations to the rest home for old Camels, Leicestershire.
MickeyMoto
Posts: 2415
Joined: 22 Nov 2008 17:41
Location: Even further oop North

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by MickeyMoto »

I think the cam chains are to be changed at 30k km intervals according to the service book.
torque
Posts: 50
Joined: 25 May 2015 19:02
Location: preston uk
Location: preston

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by torque »

If you look on ebay motorcycle parts worldwide there is a german company selling the upgrade cam chain kits and headgasket kits at a lower price than mm plus if you email him and ask for a discount he did me a good deal when i upgraded my cam chains The company is HSI CUSTOM BIKES i ordered on monday the parts arrived wednesday great service :)
backfat1187
Posts: 124
Joined: 13 Mar 2011 23:11
Location: Leicestershire UK
Location: Leicester, UK

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by backfat1187 »

Cheers Gary. I will no doubt need to pick your brains sometime soon. Unless you want to help me get the motor out.... :wink:
Steve, hopefully the removal of the flywheel will reveal only minimal damage. We'll see. It might give some clue to the reason for the breakage. When the bike's back on the road (I'm feeling optimistic tonight) you're more than welcome to take it for a spin. It's an absolute hoot.
MickeyMoto, just had a quick look at the manual, it reckons 40Km for the chains. Mines only at around 25Km. It's always been serviced well within mileage. Quality oil etc. Never been thrashed from cold. Bit of a bugger really.
Thanks Torque. I'll get in touch with him.
All the best
Jim
Gary D
Posts: 195
Joined: 29 May 2016 20:31
Location: Stoke Golding, Warks

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by Gary D »

Hi Jim

Don't be stuck if you need an extra pair of hands, just give me a couple of days notice & we'll work something out! That 25k marker does seem to crop up in dispatches regarding top end work..though a broken cam chain seems far more unusual :( . It's food for thought for us 1200 owners though & begs the question about replacing the things as a service item at the 20k marker instead? I need to join the Italian 1200 forum & get some feedback...I think they've got a factory guy or two in their ranks?

Fingers crossed for the next stage of the mechanical rehab Jim. Catch up soon!

Cheers

Gary
MickeyMoto
Posts: 2415
Joined: 22 Nov 2008 17:41
Location: Even further oop North

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by MickeyMoto »

I have heard of can chains breaking on 1200s. Thought it was change at 30k kms, but 40 sounds too long. I would be tempted to change at 20k unless Moroni know of a supplier problem that has been rectified. Some of these bikes are 10 years old now, so wonder if the latest versions have a different change period?
torque
Posts: 50
Joined: 25 May 2015 19:02
Location: preston uk
Location: preston

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by torque »

The 140 hp corsaro valve train has a harder life due to camshaft profile and double valve springs. The upgrade cam chains are wider nearly 10mm.
You will need a buzzetti m38x1.5 flywheel puller It is the same as a suzuki burgman scooter and a nice hot blow torch A long reach dial gauge for finding tdc i made my own out of an old spark plug a piece of alloy tube and a car aerial you must get tdc spot on to time the engine properly
Loctite 243 and 648 i used hylomar on the valve cover seals especialy on the plug hole seal Torque wrenches one that goes down to 5nm A small two legged puller for the camshaft gears Lots of tea and cake :D
Gary D
Posts: 195
Joined: 29 May 2016 20:31
Location: Stoke Golding, Warks

Re: Poorly Veloce

Post by Gary D »

Mornin' all

I'm now thinking I might just replace the chains when I do the shims this winter...it's a bigger job, but that mod looks like quite a serious one :? . It's probably going to be busy on the big 'un this winter!

Cheers

Gary
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