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ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 03 Sep 2018 21:00
by Gary D
I'm afraid that the latest incarnation of our beloved bike has been roundly slated in the October 2018 issue of PB :( . The tester concerned runs a Brutale 750, so this is perhaps doubly surprising?

My own 2006 model is truly great to ride & I know just how highly Veloce riders rate their steeds. Did the ZZ's arrival in Euro 4 land just kill it? No, he still seems to like the engine, but complains about the bike's finish in terms of the paintwork. He further gripes about detailing such as the admittedly unsightly charcoal breathing canister & the quality of the instrument switches & the size of the numbers on it's display . The tester also reckons that the single sided number plate hanger (another Euro abomination) twists, allowing it to foul the tyre. Mupo's new suspension is claimed to be on the limits of it's range of adjustability from new. It's bloody bad PR for the bike, be it true or false.

I will test one for myself soon & make my own mind up though. We all know that some folks just don't get Moto Morini. The tester's disrespect of the marques heritage is perhaps a telling giveaway to how he may have formed his views on the ZZ? Time will tell, but here's hoping that Alan Cathcart's & MCN's far more positive tests, are more representative of the ZZ's true ability.

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 05 Sep 2018 21:04
by Gary D
I've been up to see Ben Wylie in Whitchurch today, to take his ZZ for a spin. It was the very bike PB slated so badly, in it's latest issue. Though a very well used bike, the ZZ impressed me across the board. It's outrageously quick, just as quick to haul up & thoroughly proficient in both the suspension action & it's handling. It's livelier at the rear than my 2006 model (a little squirrely on some white lines under hard acceleration) but steers sweetly & is a worthy update. I'm also reliably informed that the charcoal canister can be easily removed without fault codes resulting.

In conclusion Mr Newbigging of PB Magazine, it may well be true that some bikes at this price have an abundance of rider aids..but where's the fun in that exactly?! Do YOU want to ride your bike, or let some wires & sensors attached to a cold emotionless brain do it for you? Me? I'm an analogue man! I loved it. Thanks to Ben for his help in arranging the road test today. Once I've figured whether it should be the ZZ, or the forthcoming Milano (I'm not getting any taller!), it could well be time for a change.

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 06 Sep 2018 17:25
by corsaro chris
Agreed, Gary.

I rode the Mid-West demonstrator back in the late spring, and it was sweetly set up with a lovely gear change and good riding position. Just what you need to enjoy the English back roads. I guess that Mr.Newbigging just likes a different sort of motorcycle from those that we do...

As long as Morini can sell all that they make, they'll charge what the market will bear. The Milano will probably take a lot of the capacity (they don't have many production bays, if you look at the factory photographs carefully), and so the ZZ, and also the ZT, are likely to be very thin on the ground... They probably make them in limited runs of around 20 at a time, with each batch having a different finish (I love the look of the black with gloss red frame version shown at Milan at the end of last year), although you can order whatever you want from the 'one off' department at a price.

The one I rode last year at the Factory had the auto-shifter; I'm not sure that M-W's did (which probably means that it didn't) but with the slipper clutch you don't need to use the clutch anyway if you're in the right rev range. I'm with you - let the rider do the riding, it is after all what it says on the Morini web site...

CC

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 06 Sep 2018 21:21
by Gary D
Amen to that Chris. The Milano will almost certainly be a game changer when it arrives in volume mode. Whether it changes the factory up a gear or three in terms of volumes remains to be seen. Two things cost big money in business, people & space. Once you've upped those, it isn't easy to downsize again.

It's an interesting business model AT mm. The survivability of the factory going forward into the semi-electric age, will be a very tough test for it's owner & management team. MM currently survives on the genius of Lambertini's designs & it's somewhat limited, leftfield (& ageing) customer basis. Maybe it will be MM that comes up with something definitive for the new age? It'll certainly take something special to finally realise the potential of electric motorcycles. Lets hope MM are in with a shout when the apparently inevitable becomes the new norm? At 54 though, I intend to stick with fossil fuel until we're taxed off the road!

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018 05:56
by Daddy Dom
I got "rider aids" on my 3½ ... a headlamp.

Muppets.

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018 12:34
by mikebbikes
I stopped buying PB a while back when it seemed to concentrate on Race rep sports bike, but I will buy this one to read it in full.
However...
I first saw the ZZ in the flesh at the Staford show in April this year, and was less than impressed with the looks.
I hate the look of the exhausts, for me, they look like they have been 'cut down' and look to short. The number plate hanger looks home made, and the carbon filter looks like a tacked on after thought, it could have been tucked away under the engine like other manufactures.
Considering its price, I to wasn't impressed.
I saw it again at the LLanbikefest in August, and it still hadnt grown on me.
Sorry, but I prefer the looks of my 08 Velcoce.

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 07 Sep 2018 14:03
by MickeyMoto
Hi Mike,

You beat me to it. The ZZ looks like a Corsaro with a different tank and a bean can on the right. I was also not impressed. However, the engine remains the sameish... Grins all round!

I also agree about PB, not for me.

Morini need new engines... The KTM 790 twin with 100hp is getting good reviews so does not need to be big capacity or super powerful...

I love my old school Scrambler...

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 09 Sep 2018 12:45
by Gary D
Hi

Good for you all, all existing Corsaro Owners of which I'm very proud to say, I'm one :D . They're all great in my view & my '06 (the troubled early bike) was well sorted by it's previous owners before my current 2 year tenure. It's lovely to ride, but then so's the ZZ. Test rides are available for these very reasons.

The carbon catch tank is there purely to get through Euro 4 & can be removed without fault codes, if disliked. Most won't delay in removing it. As Corsaro owners, you will appreciate there is no room to put it elsewhere. As victims of legislation on a daily basis, we must all appreciate that it required fitting.

Looks? They're subjective to the individual, as always. If I didn't like the ZZ to ride (or look at), I wouldn't have bought it after a good long test ride & AFTER I'd read that less than complimentary road test. Is the ZZ faster than previous Corsaro's? Yes, significantly in the case of my 'Termi equipped '06 bike. The Veloce is said to be quicker than the early bike, so I can't report on that having not ridden one. However, Alan Cathcart's readily available on the web road test, states that the ZZ delivers 8 horses more in the mid range. I know through experience that it is the quickest accelerating bike at useable road speeds that I've ever ridden. After running the Corsaro on road & track & a GSXR1000K6 for the last seven years, it's a comparison made on solid experience. The Brembo's fitted to the ZZ also haul it up way more effectively than any road bike I've previously used & the ABS is switchable, if you're either on track, or just don't get on with it.

The O.E Zard exhausts are again subjective. They certainly sound lovely given the Euro 4 approval of the ZZ though. Personally,I like them a great deal. Look at what Ducati fits to it's bikes to obtain the same certification, let alone the Japanese & BMW. The Zards on the ZZ are great aesthetic and aural solution in comparison.

Overall, I find the MRC a great source of wisdom & assistance. As such, like all it's enthusiastic members I promote it to anyone that's not a paid up member. Everyone's entitled to their views of course & this thread proves that very point. However, with a tiny factory with around just 20 staff, MM deserves considerable respect for any revisions & new models that it manages to put out. On a closing note, I rode a Scrambler as a comparison on the day I also rode the ZZ. What a great bike & the engine felt, sounded & went in a very similar way to my 06 Corsaro, (though it had been de-catted). Looks, handling & stopping wise, it just wasn't for me. What's far more important is that MM HAS found a market for it & it's likely to keep growing. A more full on Adventure model would surely have a good market too, given current trends? All power to MM's continued leftfield resistance in a very competitive world. The PB headline was "same as it ever was". The ZZ isn't, but Moto Morini most certainly are & thank the heavens for that :D !

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 09 Sep 2018 15:07
by ShaunR
All power to you, Mr. It’s a stunning looking bike. Let’s all keep doing things a little differently.

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 09 Sep 2018 20:54
by floydsveloce
Evening folks

I'm gonna put my ten pence worth in.
The problem with PB is that it's aimed at the rider in his 20's / 30's , so it's gonna be biased from the outset. All they really concentrate on is sports bikes , so if you have a 'blade or a Gixxer or a beemer , then you're ok , and anything else is poop. The ZZ could have been better than a 'blade , but because it is what it is , it's gonna be slated. I can't testify the ZZ as I haven't ridden one , but I'm sure I'd be loving it !
I gave up on PB about 20 years ago . They can keep their sports bikes and shove them up their a#se ! :twisted:
I'm perfectly happy with my veloce . And yes I'm loving it ! :D :D

Floyd

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 10 Sep 2018 23:07
by nicko
Hi Gary

I must admit I would rather hear real world, real user experiences than a journalist who is paid to either wax lyrical or cause controversy. Looks wise, I like the ZZ and if the bean tin offends, then look from the other side.

Do I take it from your list that you have purchased one? If so where from and what colour scheme?

I too have taken one for a test ride and think it's a beast. Phenomenal brakes and the engine is sublime. I have owned two Corsaros, a 2006 and a 2013 so know the engine and handling.

Cheers
Nick

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2018 07:04
by 72degrees
MickeyMoto wrote:Morini need new engines... The KTM 790 twin with 100hp is getting good reviews so does not need to be big capacity or super powerful...


It does need to be significantly lower for me to interested in another MM 1200. The 790 Duke is significantly lighter but with the 825mm seat height I won't be even bothering to go and try sitting on one.

Development costs for a radically different modern Morini (I'm still waiting for the 60bhp, 160Kg, 600 single with a <800mm seat height) are just too much for such a niche market company. The setup seems to be verging on a bespoke model - dare I say like the last days of Voxan.

I sing the praises of the 1200s (I should have acquired my 08 Corsaro when I was still young enough to do it justice) to anyone that asks me about them and give them a variation on the Clarkson Alfa quote. In fact I sometimes say "don't road test one, or you will want to buy".

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2018 07:14
by Ming
72degrees wrote:...Development costs for a radically different modern Morini (I'm still waiting for the 60bhp, 160Kg, 600 single with a <800mm seat height) are just too much for such a niche market company...

Styled like an Excalibur?

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2018 09:07
by MickeyMoto
Ming wrote:
72degrees wrote:...Development costs for a radically different modern Morini (I'm still waiting for the 60bhp, 160Kg, 600 single with a <800mm seat height) are just too much for such a niche market company...

Styled like an Excalibur?


Hmm, an Excalibur with 140bhp!

Mr 72degrees, I agree the engine development costs are too big for Morini, but why not use an existing engine from, say, KTM? 125, 390, 700 singles with Morini frames? 790 twin? How about a 765 triple? Paton have used a commuter engine! :)

Re: ZZ Heavily criticized in Performance Bikes

PostPosted: 11 Sep 2018 10:09
by 72degrees
Ming wrote:
72degrees wrote:...Development costs for a radically different modern Morini (I'm still waiting for the 60bhp, 160Kg, 600 single with a <800mm seat height) are just too much for such a niche market company...

Styled like an Excalibur?


Not that extreme. Like the original Voxan Roadster would suit me.