winter stripdown

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winter stripdown

Postby dunk 1 » 10 Nov 2019 12:16

My bike got trolled the other day - someone (on a nice shiny 1980s beemer) decided to tell me that it has all kinds of faults because I didn't look after my bike -(he started with you see lots of those advertised but you never see anyone riding them!) he then proceeded to tell me about faults it had which he couldn't possibly tell without riding/checking it - and which it hasn't got - it rides perfectly well it just looks very scruffy at the moment and this is what he took as his cue to be a pain. 10 years of living under a cover in Cumbria has taken its toll and I have been contemplating a strip-down for some time so might as well get on with it before anything does become more serious. The tank and frame need re doing and I might as well tidy the electrics as well. Despite having been through most of the bike at some point I have never taken it all apart at once so will be looking for lots of advice - some of it probably quite obvious. Also it all has to be done in the house (Mrs Dunk dos not reside with me but is still not happy) just like the old days in my flat in Hulme in the 1990's.
So
where to start - is there a best order to remove everything?
Can big bits be left outside if wrapped up well?
should the engine be stored with oil in or not (it will have to come out to remove it)
has anyone tried these wiring looms https://www.brezzisamuele.com/default.a ... descA&pg=3
or is it best to do it all myself to get the experience (my wiring experience is limited to replacing bullets)
And that is probably just a start just don't want to be advertising a bike in a box in 6 months time
thanks - Duncan
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby Ming » 10 Nov 2019 14:47

dunk 1 wrote:...just don't want to be advertising a bike in a box in 6 months time
thanks - Duncan

Don't take it apart, then! If you are happy to run 'as is' it's nobody's business, other than the MOT inspector, to say otherwise. By all means go through it carefully and give it a good service, but there's nothing wrong with an 'oily rag' bike as long as it's safe to ride. 'Nice, shiny' bikes are pleasant to look at, but when you are riding it you don't see it. I have a shiny 1980s Beemer, with 130,000km on it (not by me) - I've just had to replace the battery, which entails draining and removing the tank. I also had to repair a lot of cabling because the sheathing had crumbled. -They are not what they used to be, as well as being twice as heavy as a Morini (well, nearly).
I expect Mrs Dunk would be happier, too...
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby dunk 1 » 10 Nov 2019 15:08

it was really just the last bit of impetus I needed though - I really have been meaning to give it a good go over for some time and I think that time has now come.
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby acemorini » 10 Nov 2019 15:56

Hello Duncan,
I used a brezzisamuele wiring loom on Strada, no problems with it, and quite fast delivery if I remember right.
Regards Pete.
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby dunk 1 » 10 Nov 2019 17:04

thank you - may go for it -just need to work out which is the one I need for a 79 sport with electric start - Duncan
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby Steve Brown » 10 Nov 2019 17:50

Ming wrote:
dunk 1 wrote:...just don't want to be advertising a bike in a box in 6 months time
thanks - Duncan

Don't take it apart, then! If you are happy to run 'as is' it's nobody's business, other than the MOT inspector, to say otherwise. By all means go through it carefully and give it a good service, but there's nothing wrong with an 'oily rag' bike as long as it's safe to ride. 'Nice, shiny' bikes are pleasant to look at, but when you are riding it you don't see it. I have a shiny 1980s Beemer, with 130,000km on it (not by me) - I've just had to replace the battery, which entails draining and removing the tank. I also had to repair a lot of cabling because the sheathing had crumbled. -They are not what they used to be, as well as being twice as heavy as a Morini (well, nearly).
I expect Mrs Dunk would be happier, too...


I second what Ming says. Experts willing to tell you what is wrong with your bike when they couldn't possibly know are a pain in the arris. I'm inclined to get rude with them very quickly.
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby dunk 1 » 10 Nov 2019 19:02

I agree and if that was the only factor I wouldn't bother but the bike is in need of some tlc despite running well- I got the bike 12 years ago as a non runner and it took me a while to get it how I wanted it and running. Since then every year I have to spend time going over body work, frame etc and every year it is a little bit worse, being by the coast in Cumbria is not the best place to be keeping a bike outside. I want to take it back to a higher starting point to begin the decline again if that makes sense before anything does become an issue. Anyway started to take a few bits off in the last few hours of daylight this afternoon so looks like I've started
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby George 350 » 10 Nov 2019 19:37

Restoration hints:
Firstly have you room for a shed? Even a small one to keep the parts in and the dirt off will be good.
Having done a couple of rebuilds/restorations, my advice is to get yourself a copy of the parts book beforehand. You can use this to create a spreadsheet of each page where you can note what you want to do with each section of the bike, and you will have part numbers to frighten yourself how much it could cost.
Get some quotes for paint, powder coating, chroming and anything else you need to 'farm out' as the prices may frighten you and as Ming says a sound oily rag rider is nothing to be ashamed of, and you won't be frightened of using it when the weather is bad. That said, there is a huge amount of satisfaction in recreating a 'new' bike.

If you do restore it, you will need several plastic boxes to keep the dismantled bits in - have a word with your corner shopkeeper and see if he will save the 2.5 litre tubs that loose sweets come in for you as these are great for the job.
Before you pull the engine from the frame, if you intend to "go inside", undo the very tight nuts on the crank and gearbox shafts. However, I suggest you refit the clutch cover and leave the engine until later and do the cycle parts first. If your engine is running fine and is just grubby, then soda blasting is a good way of non destructive cleaning, and you can do a complete engine as long as you securely blank off every orifice.
If you want anything re-chrome plated this can take a loooong time to get done, so get this in early.
ALWAYS take a photograph of the collection of parts to be plated and make sure the plater has a copy.
Same goes for things that need to be zinc plated, like chain adjusters as well as all the nuts and bolts, wheel spindles etc.
Regarding the wiring, does the new loom include the wires to the handlebar switches as the originals were very poor when new and are now 40 years old. If not then you should replace these as well.
Keep asking questions. We'll all be happy to advise.
Regards, George.
George
350 sport 1978, 350 Strada 1978
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby P.I. Staker » 10 Nov 2019 20:01

Photograph everything, no matter how mundane it may seem at the time. The longer it's apart the more you will forget.
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby dunk 1 » 10 Nov 2019 20:19

The engine runs fine so it will be left alone- no room for a shed I'm afraid - I live I in an old mining terrace near Barrow - they were all built cheap and with no bathrooms so at some stage they have all had a bathroom built out into the backyard making it tiny, just a few plants and the bike and that's it. My main concerns are the frame, tank, fork stanchions and wiring the rest can cope and be done later is it as about prolonging the usefulness of the bike rather than making a show pony( and yes I am aware everything else not done looks bad once you have done part of it) All the wiring works but there are a lot of collapsing sleeves. I have already added many bits down the years such as rear sets.
plating is not something I have any experience of but think there may be companies based in Lancaster.
thanks for all your input so far
Duncan
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby mbmm350s » 11 Nov 2019 10:14

Hi Dunk

should the engine be stored with oil in or not (it will have to come out to remove it)


No, drain the oil. If the oil is old I would put fresh oil in a go for a last run and then drain it.
Couple of squirts down the bores and proper lubrication of the rockers wouldn't go amiss.
Plug all the orifices as previously mentioned and store INSIDE (I had a 3TA under the bed for many years)
Don't partially disassemble the engine unless you intend to work on it.
Ideally the gearbox sprocket nut needs to be loosened before engine removal,
all the others can be undone with special tools only if necessary, but I wouldn't disassemble anything
as we all find to our cost many things that are less than perfect and absolutely must be replaced.

The engine is light enough to remove and install whole on your own, though help is useful.
I use a scissor jack under the engine to take its weight for bolt removal/installation and the jack provides fine control for alignment of bolts.
Protect frame tubes with pipe insulation

When you make new looms I include extra earths back to the common battery earth
so you don't need to rely on frame parts, such as the head-stocks to make good electrical connection.
Another place is to run additional earth for the indicators.

I would concur with George on chrome plating turnaround.
But also on tank/sidepanels painting this can take 3 months unless you do it yourself.


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Re: winter stripdown

Postby 72degrees » 11 Nov 2019 11:55

mbmm350s wrote:Hi Dunk

should the engine be stored with oil in or not (it will have to come out to remove it)



The engine is light enough to remove and install whole on your own, though help is useful.
I use a scissor jack under the engine to take its weight for bolt removal/installation and the jack provides fine control for alignment of bolts.
Protect frame tubes with pipe insulation


Mark


Having done a few engine swaps over the last couple of years I recommend this approach. I use a hydraulic trolley jack but the principle is the same. It's all a bit more of a squeeze when I'm extracting or replacing a 350 lump in a 250 frame and it definitely has to come out to the 'right' side.
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby dunk 1 » 24 Nov 2019 11:33

Hello - last few weekends have been limited due to family issues and bad weather - rain again today so working on the bits I already have off - the front mudguard brackets could do with coming off for a little TLC - question is what is the best way to remove them, grind off the bottoms of the rivets or drill from above or below or something else? also how best to reaffix - are they riveted for a reason rather than bolted, if so how do I get this done - thanks - Duncan - if needs be I can use the pillar drill at work
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby George 350 » 24 Nov 2019 22:59

Hi Dunc,
When I did mine donkeys years ago, I drilled the bottom off the rivet and they came out easily.
For reassembly, I used stainless M5x15 domed cap head screws with nyloc nuts on - they are still there. Used the same approach on both the fork leg mounting bit and the smaller bracket where the stays go on. Only a rivet counter would either notice or care that it isn't original.
First time I restored the brackets I got them rechromed, but last time they were powder coated, which I feel is more durable.
Hope this helps, George.
George
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Re: winter stripdown

Postby Mepstein » 25 Nov 2019 04:09

George 350 wrote:Hi Dunc,
When I did mine donkeys years ago, I drilled the bottom off the rivet and they came out easily.
For reassembly, I used stainless M5x15 domed cap head screws with nyloc nuts on - they are still there. Used the same approach on both the fork leg mounting bit and the smaller bracket where the stays go on. Only a rivet counter would either notice or care that it isn't original.
First time I restored the brackets I got them rechromed, but last time they were powder coated, which I feel is more durable.
Hope this helps, George.

I did the same thing, drilled out the rivet, polished the stainless steel fender, painted the bracket and then stainless button head screw, washer and nyloc nut. The stainless button head nut looks a lot like a rivet from a couple feet off. The next one I will use chrome cerikote. It looks more like chrome than powder coat but I can paint it at home much cheaper than sending out for chrome.
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