Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

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Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby Canuck750 » 25 Jul 2020 01:44

I have thrown in the towel trying to get the stock Ducati Electronica ignition to function reliably on my 1979 Moto Morini 500W.
The kit arrived yesterday via DHL including a pair of Dyna mini coils.

https://www.elektronik-sachse.de/shopsy ... i-500.html

Installation is straightforward with the only challenge mounting the Dyna coils. I made up some brackets out of 18 gauge stainless steel sheet to tuck the coils into the positions previously occupied by the stock transducers.

To install the system simply disconnect the wires supplying the transducers;

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green wire from fuse box to transducer with a jumper green to second transducer is disconnected, I just pulled the green wire out of the fuse box and folded it over a harness sheathing and zip tied it, same at the headstock area, folded green wires back against a harness and zip tied wire. My bike has the white ground wire connecting the two transducers and the continues to the fuse box, again remove white wire from fuse box, fold over and zip tie, ditto at the heads stock area.

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Remove the pick up inspection plate, remove the 8mm nut (11mm socket head) securing the pick up rotating magnet, remove nut, special spacer washer and magnet, remove the two alan head fasteners retaining the pick-up assembly and remove the pick up assembly, disconnect the two red wires up to the transducers and then unplug the grey wire on the left hand transducer that supplies the tachometer. The special washer will not be used with the new system, only the nut.

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Remove the two transducers, Remove the high tension leads from the transducers to reuse onto the new Dyna coils.
The two yellow wires from the original stator remain installed to the regulator / rectifier to continue to charge the battery.

The brackets for the Dyna coils were cut out of flat stainless sheet with a cut off wheel in a 4" grinder and finished with a flat file. Two 6mm holes for the coils and two 6mm holes to match the original transducer frame mounts.

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The Dyna coils are dampened with rubber bungs I had from other projects. There is also a thick rubber washer between the two brackets at each hole through which the coils are secured. I used 6mm threaded rod with a nylock nut on each end to through bolt the two coils through the brackets. before bolting the coils together I installed the high tensions leads with the new rubber boots and plug clips crimped onto the ends of the high tension wires.

I then moved on to the pick up plate installation, install the new supplied steel spacer over the end of the cam shaft

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and reinstall the nut over the protruding end of the cam shaft (no special washer used here)

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The new supplied pick up plate with the LED sensors was installed using the two new alan head fasteners and washers. Attached to the new pick up plate is a four wire harness with a new rubber grommet, run the new harness up the front frame rail. I then ran the remainder of the harness to the space between the rear fender and battery.

Next I made up a new section of harness long enough to reach from the space behind the battery up the center of the frame to the area where the new coils are mounted. I ran a red, green, purple and grey wire in a pvc sheathing and terminated the wire ends at the coils with new female spade terminals and plastic covers. The grey wire is spliced into the original grey wire that feeds the tachometer. The new red wire that connects the two coil + leads is terminated at the fuse box with a new female spade connection and plastic cover and then this red wire continues to the control box.

A stainless steel plate was made with one hole to fasten the plate between the rear fender upper mount and frame tab. The supplied ten pin control box is fastened to this plate using the supplied Velcro sheets.
The supplied terminal plugs were crimped to the four new wires I had made up along with a pair of new black ground wires. Then all ten wires were inserted into the control box and connections tightened with the supplied screwdriver.

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Once the connections were done the peel and stick Velcro sheets were stuck to the back of the control box and then the box stuck to the new stainless plate behind the battery.

Back to the pick up plate the supplied magnetized ring is slipped over the new supplied spacer previously installed.

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Rear piston was brought to TDC (PSM2), it does not matter if its on compression stroke. The ignition is then switched on and the magnetized ring rotated to align with 'S' stamped on the ring (does not matter which of the two 'S' marks are used) with the upper LED until the LED lights up. As soon as I turned on the key the LED lit. I then rotated the ring towards the 'N' mark stamped on the ring until the LED went off.

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Then tighten the two small alan set crews on the adjustable ring. Turn the ignition OFF.

Install the spark plugs into the high tension leads and set the plugs near the cylinder heads. using the supplied small flat blade screw drive set the control box rotating advance switch to position zero (test).
Turn the ignition ON, both spark plugs should spark continuously and with a bright strong spark. Battery must be in good shape, manual says it will spark as low as 7 volts. My battery read 12.5 volts.

I am happy to report that on the TEST (zero) position both spark plugs emitted a continuous and very strong spark, Hurrah!

On the weekend I will reinstall the gas tank and hopefully the bike will fire up and run well, fingers crossed.
Last edited by Canuck750 on 27 Jul 2020 14:05, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby Canuck750 » 26 Jul 2020 20:27

I fitted the gas tank, there is good clearance to the gas tank tunnel and the Dyna coils, I had measured it all up before I made the brackets but it was good to fit the tank and be sure it all has sufficient clearance.
Connected the fuel lines and turned the choke on, pressed the electric starter, battery is weak but it fired up right away.

Hurrah!

I have not set the idles or fuel screws and the bike died after a minute or two.

The starter solenoid has been acting up,

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I had taken the cover off and cleaned it but its still not good. These are the typical Bosch starter relays used on Moto Guzzi and other |Italian bikes. I need to find a new Bosch four terminal solenoid with the big lugs for the battery cable and the starter motor cable. As far as I know I don't think I can use a standard four pin relay as the starter draws too much current for the 16 gauge wires that a Bosch relay plug has.

PS

this is my Moto Morini 500W, restored to stock with the exception of the rear sets and the exhaust is black whereas I think it should be chrome

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Last edited by Canuck750 on 27 Jul 2020 03:08, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby jb666 » 26 Jul 2020 21:17

I had the same issue with my Kanguro. I fitted a Durite 12V/100A relay - part no 0-727-10.

John.
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby Canuck750 » 27 Jul 2020 02:43

Thanks John, I found a universal starter relay at Fortnine - a Canadian online motorcycle supply company, a little bit on the pricey side but it is fused and heavy duty.

K&L Universal Starter Relay - 21-2994

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https://fortnine.ca/en/k-l-universal-st ... ay-21-2994

PS

I found the original style spade terminal covers at Bevel Heaven in California

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https://store.bevelheaven.com/Electrica ... eve-Rigid/


All of the wires and crimp terminals are available at British Wiring in the USA, every imaginable wire colour combination and gauge, no minimum order and they have all the proper crimp terminal connectors to match factory correct wire harness style

https://www.britishwiring.com/

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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby Canuck750 » 06 Aug 2020 17:18

Installed the new starter relay and the bike fire right up. The bike runs well, very pleased with the new ignition.
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby rossguzzi » 12 Aug 2020 13:07

Very good write up. I hope I never need to do the same, but this sort of info is invaluable IMHO.
Cheers !
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby julianharty » 15 Aug 2020 11:02

Another vote of thanks for an excellent write up including the detailed photos.

And a request: do please keep or make available your old ignition system. Whatever still works of your ignition might well help another owner in future.

I hope the Sachs system serves you faithfully for decades to come :)
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby Canuck750 » 19 Aug 2020 00:50

I need some help understanding the electrical connections of the stator.

Last night I connected a used 12V stator that was removed from a 3-1/2 (no white ground wire) and worked on tuning the bike, after I was done the ignition key was turned off. This morning there was a distinct electrical smell in the shop and the right hand engine cover was warm and a strong electrical burning smell from inside the cover. Removing the right hand cover the five charging coils were dark brown and stains of cooked varnish were on the cam pulley and the inside of the rotor. Looks like the stator charging coils have shorted out. I don't know why or how electricity got past the key switch to burn out the coils when the key was off.

With the Sasche ignition the system is converted to battery / coil ignition, the ignition coil (one of the six) mounted to the fixed body of the stator is no longer used, the GREEN wire coming from the ignition coil and out of the wire bundle from the stator is no longer used and is therefore disconnected from the fuse box. That leaves the five charging coils active to recharge the battery, a fully charged battery is essential for battery / coil ignition. There are two YELLOW wires coming from the stator that connect to the voltage regulator.

There is a RED wire that comes from the stator wire bundle that connects to the fuse box. This RED wire connection plugging in to the fuse box is located at a pair of joined lugs (four lugs in total) that are HOT from the battery], always powered from the battery to the stator. I don't understand why the charging coils have a HOT red wire direct to the stator.

MY FIRST QUESTION

If I am only using the stator for the battery charging function can I leave the RED wire from the stator disconnected at the fuse box and only leave the two yellow wires connected to the voltage regulator???

MY SECOND QUESTION - Voltage regulator connections

The voltage regulator I am using is the early type used on the 350, It has markings beside the lugs that are labeled BROWN / RED / YELLOW / YELLOW. The edge of the cast aluminum body beside a mounting hole is stamped GROUND (earth). If I have things right, the two YELLOW wires from the stator plug into the voltage regulator lugs marked YELLOW. I take it the YELLOW wires are the AC generated current from the stator to the regulator.
I have connected a BROWN wire from the fuse box 1st lower lug on bottom left of fuse box, to the BROWN lug on the voltage regulator. I take it this BROWN wire is feeding DC current into the fused circuit BROWN that is shared with the BROWN from the ignition switch. When the engine is running the DC current from the regulator is charging up the battery.

A ground (earth) wire is connected from the securing bolt on the voltage regulator body to a ground (earth) connection on the frame.

There remains a lug on the voltage regulator labeled RED. I don't see any indication on a wiring diagram that uses this RED lug. Am I correct that the voltage regulator RED lug is not used. ?
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby julianharty » 19 Aug 2020 08:23

I'm sorry to learn you've had these problems with the stator. I can see from answers to another post you created http://www.morini-riders-club.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6125#p33645 that the red wire can and probably should be left disconnected.

Out of interest, you mentioned in that topic that you've been offered a complete and tested stator from Germany - did you end up buying that and if so, does that work for you?

I've converted a Kanguro 6V/12V stator to the 12V windings. I've yet to be able to test it as I've still got to create a wiring loom for my bike. When I do so, which is not an immediate task, then I'll provide updates on various tests of its performance.
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby Canuck750 » 19 Aug 2020 14:38

julianharty wrote:I'm sorry to learn you've had these problems with the stator. I can see from answers to another post you created http://www.morini-riders-club.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6125#p33645 that the red wire can and probably should be left disconnected.

Out of interest, you mentioned in that topic that you've been offered a complete and tested stator from Germany - did you end up buying that and if so, does that work for you?

I've converted a Kanguro 6V/12V stator to the 12V windings. I've yet to be able to test it as I've still got to create a wiring loom for my bike. When I do so, which is not an immediate task, then I'll provide updates on various tests of its performance.


I did receive the 12v stator form Germany, unfortunately it is the one that burnt up! I don't know how yet but from the excellent description Mark sent me on the other post I made it could be the regulator.

I am going to tackle rewinding it myself as I can not find anyone over here to take it on. I bought a coil of wire and a hand winding machine plus I found the wire diagrams on the NL Morini site. The ignition coil is OK.
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby julianharty » 19 Aug 2020 16:23

Good for you to do the rewind directly, assuming they work out OK.

I'm becoming increasingly tempted to create a test rig with an electric motor to rotate a tapered cone to suit the rotors where we can then easily test the outputs of a stator and/or individual coil windings. We could also test the effects of different regulators (I mainly use ones inexpensive ones including ones that would be expensive new but come up for sale in excellent condition for small amounts).

Something for me to consider post PhD (I'm writing up currently and trying hard not to spend most of my time in the garage instead!). It might then be practical to try out other stator arrangements as you (and I) both have a bike with the Sachse ignition so don't actually need the ignition coil winding.

I have seen test rigs e.g. I think NLM had one in the workshop that presumably https://www.lussoveloce.com/ still have tucked away somewhere. I don't know whether they were used to test charging and power-output.
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby Canuck750 » 19 Aug 2020 18:03

julianharty wrote:Good for you to do the rewind directly, assuming they work out OK.

I'm becoming increasingly tempted to create a test rig with an electric motor to rotate a tapered cone to suit the rotors where we can then easily test the outputs of a stator and/or individual coil windings. We could also test the effects of different regulators (I mainly use ones inexpensive ones including ones that would be expensive new but come up for sale in excellent condition for small amounts).

Something for me to consider post PhD (I'm writing up currently and trying hard not to spend most of my time in the garage instead!). It might then be practical to try out other stator arrangements as you (and I) both have a bike with the Sachse ignition so don't actually need the ignition coil winding.

I have seen test rigs e.g. I think NLM had one in the workshop that presumably https://www.lussoveloce.com/ still have tucked away somewhere. I don't know whether they were used to test charging and power-output.


I hope the winding works out, a friend was a tech at the University here in the electrical engineering lab, he has volunteered to help me with the winding. I will keep you posted.

Jim
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby George 350 » 19 Aug 2020 19:23

Hi Jim, There is an article about rewinding the stator on the Dutch Morini Club site-http://www.motomoriniclub.nl that may be helpful. (Select 'Technical' then scroll down- it is after the ignition stuff). Quite old though so might be worth waiting for the next ATG to arrive.
Regards, George.
George
350 sport 1978, 350 Strada 1978
650 Norton and 650 Enfield
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Re: Installing Elekronik Sasche MHP Digital Ignition in 500W

Postby Canuck750 » 20 Aug 2020 00:48

Thanks George, I think that is the same site I found, there is a real good simple diagram of how many windings each coil has (and each of the five charging coils have two separate windings in them.

http://www.motomoriniclub.nl/altschem.pdf

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