Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby 72degrees » 12 Apr 2017 17:30

I just jury-rigged an updated ignition setup using my spare NLM 'module' (later type with two cable bundles) and a pair of Naraku 'Racing High Output' ignition coils from a scooter racing supplier (including lurid orange HT leads). Amazingly, I guessed the wiring first time (though TBF the electronic tacho connection makes identifying the front pot leads pretty easy). Started easily and revs well still using an OEM second generation red pickup. Only way to tell if any performance improvement can be noticed is to make a proper job of it and launch it up a hill. If I do, I'll always carry the OEM transducers as back up though.

While hooking it up, I was wondering again about the weird extra 'thingy' this Spanish 2C came with in the ignition system. About the size of a large flasher relay. One yellow/green connection (to the stator green wire). Two green to the transducers and an earth lead. It seems to be some kind of complicated way to split the AC feed from the stator to the transducers. I know at least one other 2C owner has found a similar device on a 'late' 250. I've left it in place so far when using the OEM setup and will keep it zip tied to the frame in case I have to revert, as it does seem to spark pretty well with it in the circuit.

Just got to fabricate mountings for the module and coils to suit the 2C frame. It might be nice to leave both sets of components in place, for a quick switch over, in case of failure, but it's a bit tight for space behind the right hand panel, even with no voltage regulator fitted.
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby Ming » 13 Apr 2017 06:49

Here's what you are talking about - spaghetti junction...

Transducers.jpg
Transducers.jpg (231.68 KiB) Viewed 15137 times


Sorry, photo is rotated, so 'the thing' is down the bottom. It doesn't show on the MRC wiring diagram, the only other I have is in the Owner's manual, but is very blurred and not conclusive. My 250 is still a work in progress, winter having intervened, along with a load of other jobs to do around the house.
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby 72degrees » 13 Apr 2017 07:33

Ming wrote:Here's what you are talking about - spaghetti junction...

Sorry, photo is rotated, so 'the thing' is down the bottom. It doesn't show on the MRC wiring diagram, the only other I have is in the Owner's manual, but is very blurred and not conclusive. My 250 is still a work in progress, winter having intervened, along with a load of other jobs to do around the house.


That's it. I wired the project up so that it could be eliminated from the system easily but I've never yet got round to running it 'thing free'(if it works...). I hooked up the module yesterday by attaching just one of the green wires from it and it ran OK. After I've rigged up the module and coils mountings, I'll try it hooked up direct to the stator green wire and see if I can notice any difference.

I must look for the NLM pickup I have in a drawer somewhere and try that again.
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby EVguru » 13 Apr 2017 10:24

I can't remember what I said last time, but my guess is that it's either a voltage limiter, or an interference supressor.

The copper plate on the ignition winding is supposed to magnetically saturate the stator Iron and limit the voltage, but the Germans prefer to leave it off and use an electronic limiter (similar to a Zenner regulator).

It doesn't look factory, becuase the connector boots are not the original style. Perhaps it was a market specific fittment to comply with local inteference regs.
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby 72degrees » 13 Apr 2017 10:33

EVguru wrote:I can't remember what I said last time, but my guess is that it's either a voltage limiter, or an interference supressor.

The copper plate on the ignition winding is supposed to magnetically saturate the stator Iron and limit the voltage, but the Germans prefer to leave it off and use an electronic limiter (similar to a Zenner regulator).

It doesn't look factory, becuase the connector boots are not the original style. Perhaps it was a market specific fittment to comply with local inteference regs.


That would be my guess as both machines were originally sold in Spain.

I've decided not to proceed with the upgrade until after Loton this weekend. It was revving well enough at Curborough on Saturday, so I'll leave it as it is until I have a little more time to do it in a way that allows a quick return to original if necessary.
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby 72degrees » 14 Apr 2017 19:16

Time to bring the 2C/375 to life again today, now that the project is more or less operational.

The NLM 350 SS 2:1 is easier to fit on a 350 in a 2C frame than the special racing system on the project, but a senior moment had me redoing the rear pipe when I realised I hadn't put a port gasket in! Drilled and tapped the new carb to head rubbers to suit the 5mm thread on the damping adapters of my ancient Morgan carbtune and blanked them off with neat stainless M5 x 12 dome head cap screws.

More in hope than expectation, I put the clutch spring cups, springs and nuts from the 350 engine on (I'd borrowed the weevee spring assist washers and hex nuts ). I fully expected the clutch to slip slightly after the experience on 'the project' but it seems fine. I found that the standard 2C kickstart lever fits quite well and folds away neatly enough, so I'll leave the slightly lighter natty folding alloy one on the project for now. Finally found the mechanical tacho drive from the Spanish bike which I had put in "a safe place", so I put that on the project because its missing the cable guide thing.

Popped the original (purchased in 1982?) PHBH28s back on (though minus pod filters for now). I'd already given them an ultrasonic clean, and slide wear didn't seem too bad. The new throttle cables haven't arrived from Venhill yet but I hooked up the fuel lines anyway and decided to see if it would start with the idle adjusters well screwed in. It has been a very willing starter since fitting the NLM ignition module (but with 2nd generation OEM red pickup). Sure enough, once juice had reached the parts and with one starter jet open it coughed a couple of times then started and ran at about 2000 rpm once warmed up a bit. It's definitely significantly mechanically quieter than the rebuilt 350, at least when idling not fully hot. Do I remember correctly Ollie at NLM saying something about the crank roller bearing conversion leading to slightly more noise?

Came to see what the clutch take up was like and on coming to connect the clutch cable discovered the handlebar lever split barrel cable nipple has gone AWOL. Curses! I could have sworn I put it in a small tray with other vital little items like the twistgrip cable block but it is absent (though fortunately the twistgrip bit is still present). I may have stupidly left it in place with just the clutch throwout lever disconnected while the engine swap was going on. It just might be on the garage floor somewhere. If all else fails I'll treat it to a new cable as the Venhill F/L one on the project works well.

I then realised the electrics were dead and traced it to the line fuse holder in the battery lead having become detached from the lead. Another comedy minute or two searching for the tiny grub screw that I dropped while fixing it. Then I had a brain wave and dug out an old French mains plug I had knocking about. As I dimly remembered, the terminals use very small brass screws (smaller than UK plugs). Success, and despite standing unused for 6 months there was still enough charge left to check all the lights. Just the rear brake light switch needed attention (staying on).

I could fit the better instrument binnacle (plus a new switch) and headlamp shell (the 375/2C one is cracked round one mounting) and fit the 520 sprockets, but I'll think I'll get it through an MoT as is first, just in case. The swing arm has a tiny bit of play but I'm hoping it can be tweaked out by side play adjustment for now.

I've found a supplier of 13T 520 front sprockets in Italy, but whilst the price of the sprocket (PBR 1172 Front Sprocket Moto Morini Canguro 350 86-90) is reasonable, they want 20 euros postage, which particularly given the state of sterling seems a bit steep for such a small comparatively light item.

Anyway, the Forgotten Error makes its return to Loton Park on Sunday. Will it make it to the top this year? Place bets now!
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby 72degrees » 16 Apr 2017 21:23

Well it got to the top of Loton Park once. In under 79 seconds. Actually in front of a couple of modern 250s. Then over enthusiasm and the penny pinching of not replacing the seven year old front tyre got the better of me. Lost the front braking for the first left hander on the second practice run. Cold, old tyre plus cold tarmac didn't take kindly to getting it briefly in to third and late braking. "Touched the front brake" and down I went. A 2C master cylinder with a nice Hel braided line makes for a surprisingly effective front brake.

Managed to drive myself home after help from the NHCA stalwarts loading the bike on the trailer. Once back home, I took myself to A&E on the advice of the course medic and now have left hand ring finger and thumb in splints. The twistgrip is mashed and I can't operate a clutch lever now, so game over for this weekend.

What larks!
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby norbert » 17 Apr 2017 00:51

Lo siento mucho!

I hope you will recover as soon as possible!

best wishes
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby acemorini » 17 Apr 2017 14:45

Wishing you a speedy recovery, hope that it's not to painful and you are soon back on the hills.
Regards Pete.
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby MickeyMoto » 18 Apr 2017 08:03

Oh dear. Hillclimb 1 Morini 0.

You should have come to France. Tancarville has a great hill climb!
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby 72degrees » 18 Apr 2017 08:55

MickeyMoto wrote:Oh dear. Hillclimb 1 Morini 0.

You should have come to France. Tancarville has a great hill climb!


So I should. At least I proved it could get up Loton Park, unlike its debut this time last year. I didn't even cause the first red flag. Still can't work out how my left hand bore the brunt as the bike went down on the right hand side. I suspect it got caught under the frame somehow as I slid for what seemed a surprisingly long way, for an off at such a paltry speed. At least a wee vee isn't too heavy and I had Behring gloves with very good knuckle protection, or it might be more mashed. It's not as if I haven't fallen off demon braking before over the years of circuit racing and hill climbs but never crunched a hand previously.

I can still make a V sign with it though, so I'm hoping I might manage finishing the reinstatement of the 2C/375 before the splints come off.

Galling that all I had to do to get 6 points in the 350 class on Monday would have been to get to the top at least three times - the only other 350 also didn't make past Sunday (mechanical failure I think) ;)

Also thanks acemorini and Norbert for the best wishes.
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby MarkB » 18 Apr 2017 12:58

Very sorry to hear that Pete; I hope you and the bike are fully fit again soon. The great Denis Jenkinson once said that hillclimbing's the only motorsport he knows where the more money and skill you have, the less time you get to spend doing it.
"I'll have a V please, Bob."
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby 72degrees » 20 Apr 2017 20:05

MarkB wrote:Very sorry to hear that Pete; I hope you and the bike are fully fit again soon. The great Denis Jenkinson once said that hillclimbing's the only motorsport he knows where the more money and skill you have, the less time you get to spend doing it.


Thanks Mark,

TBF I'd have thought that applies to most motor sport, at least against the clock (like the IoM). Probably also ocean yacht racing (also described as "Tearing up £50 notes, whilst standing under a cold shower").
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby 72degrees » 20 Apr 2017 20:27

Fracture clinic today. Seems it's game over for 6-8 weeks plus physiotherapy time.

The new splint on my thumb is more comfortable but still wont allow much fiddly screw or small component manipulation. Even so, I might manage to at least fit a new twistgrip. Might as well go for a Tommaselli quick action one (bah to originality so long as it's 'period') while I'm at it, so as to arrive at the first corner going even more quickly than I should. My 64 feet times weren't bad at about 2.5 seconds, with the doomed run launch .04 seconds better than the first one. Talking to Robin Sims, formerly of this parish, today he thinks I may even have come to grief, as he nearly did at the same place once, by grabbing the front brake while the front was still slightly light from grabbing 3rd. I certainly need to see if it still runs OK by borrowing the road Morini one. It wasn't running for long on its side. Adrenaline kicked in to get me on my feet and sprinting before the marshals reached it to find the kill button. If it doesn't rattle even more loudly then I'll treat it to an overdue front tyre (Avon to match the rear).

I'd been hoping to get the 2C/375 operational and MoT'd in time to ride it to Stafford this weekend. Can't even take the GFR now, and probably shouldn't even try to drive the MX5 (handbrake button). Might have to brave the massive car park queues to get out in the Granvia (automatic with park position).
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Re: Forgotten Era Speed Hill Climb 350 Morini MKII

Postby 72degrees » 22 Apr 2017 18:05

Well the good news is that it still runs OK. I gaffer taped the throttle cable outers to the brake lever and hooked the inners back on the twistgrip drum so that I could operate the throttle (albeit stiffly as the inners are kinked and frayed now). Started easily and sounds no more like a bag of nails than it did before. A bit of a blow from the header pipe/silencer joints as it came down on that side. The silencer now has a fair scrape on it but the mounting bracket seems to have bent slightly so that it's tucked in more neatly. Hopefully I can loosen everything off then re-tighten to improve things.

The brake lever ball end is now more like half a ball. With luck NLM may have one or a friendly alloy welding place may be able to build it up. The lever itself isn't bent or cracked at all and the master cylinder is OK. RH footrest and gear change rubbers a bit chamfered but they give race cred. No other damage apart from the screw on one side racing number plate having pulled through the plastic. Soon fixed with a big washer.

I think I'll go for the Tommaselli quick action twin pull throttle with cable adjusters, which will speed up carb balancing. So that's another pair of throttle cables I need to order, plus a clutch cable for the 2C/375 because I can't find the slotted barrel nipple anywhere and nobody seems to sell the 10mm version required (though worth phoning NLM first I suppose, in hopes).

Next task is to see if I can get the new throttle cables on to the PHBH28s with a gammy hand. I struggle a bit at the slide end at the best of times (for needle adjustment if necessary) but it is probably much easier doing it with the twistgrip ends unhooked. First I have to get the carb tops off though!
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