I'm planning to race my 3½ next season and would be interested in
off-list correspondence with any one who has raced or tuned to race
one of these bikes.
Specifically intersted in porting, cam and timing/carb configurations,
reliability, and, well... anything that will make this thing go....
I'll be road racing three short tracks and one long (2.5 mi.)
3½ Racers...
I raced my 350 in the UK with www.earlystocks.co.uk
If you're looking for a race winning bike then look elsewhere. Sounds a bit stupid because I actually won two championships on it. I put that more down to reliability and consistency though. I also did a few track days on it and embarrassed some modern superbikes, but to be honest it was hard work.
What kind of bikes will you be racing against?
I had about 150 races and only had one DNF due to water in the fuel. The only other mechanical problem was two broken rocker studs, and I had about 3 races before I realised it had happened.
There are a few people who have raced them, probably more for the love of the bike than anything. I enjoyed developing the bike as much as the racing.
If you need any particular advice let me know, better on the open forum to stimulate ideas and debate.
Best of luck,
H.
If you're looking for a race winning bike then look elsewhere. Sounds a bit stupid because I actually won two championships on it. I put that more down to reliability and consistency though. I also did a few track days on it and embarrassed some modern superbikes, but to be honest it was hard work.
What kind of bikes will you be racing against?
I had about 150 races and only had one DNF due to water in the fuel. The only other mechanical problem was two broken rocker studs, and I had about 3 races before I realised it had happened.
There are a few people who have raced them, probably more for the love of the bike than anything. I enjoyed developing the bike as much as the racing.
If you need any particular advice let me know, better on the open forum to stimulate ideas and debate.
Best of luck,
H.
Thanks! A liitle background may be in order. The bike's a very low mileage
(4k) 1976 wire wheel Sport. No real mods from stock yet.
I've missed the rule change proposal cut off that would have allowed me to run in Period 2 Lightweight (360cc twin 4 stroke, 250cc 2 and 3 cly. 2 stroke up to 1972)
So, the next class would be Mid-Production (up to 650cc pushrod twin, 400cc 1,2 and 3cyl 2 stroke to 1976) but this class
doesn't allow dry clutches (???)
So... it looks as though it may run in Period 3 lightweight with the Pantah's/Allazzurra's, TZ250's, GPZ550's up to 1982.
I have drafted a rule change proposal to allow it in pre 1972 class and
have been informed that it should run in that class, but it will be 2011
season before the rule change.
Until then I'd just like to get it out on the track and work on developing
the motor a little. Class limit will be 360cc + 5% = 378cc (no nicasil)
Two things I'm focused on right now are brakes and ignition.
I'd like to replace the chromed disc (single front) with something a little more suitable. Floating discs are not allowed. I need to remove the disc and measure offset.
As for the ignition, I'd like to run without a battery, with the stock set up,
maybe converting to the ZDG-3 eventually.
I don't want to butcher the electrics too badly as I'd like the option of putting it back on the street some day.
I will be getting a spare frame shortly, to lighten/ hack the extra lugs off.
Mathew
(4k) 1976 wire wheel Sport. No real mods from stock yet.
I've missed the rule change proposal cut off that would have allowed me to run in Period 2 Lightweight (360cc twin 4 stroke, 250cc 2 and 3 cly. 2 stroke up to 1972)
So, the next class would be Mid-Production (up to 650cc pushrod twin, 400cc 1,2 and 3cyl 2 stroke to 1976) but this class
doesn't allow dry clutches (???)
So... it looks as though it may run in Period 3 lightweight with the Pantah's/Allazzurra's, TZ250's, GPZ550's up to 1982.
I have drafted a rule change proposal to allow it in pre 1972 class and
have been informed that it should run in that class, but it will be 2011
season before the rule change.
Until then I'd just like to get it out on the track and work on developing
the motor a little. Class limit will be 360cc + 5% = 378cc (no nicasil)
Two things I'm focused on right now are brakes and ignition.
I'd like to replace the chromed disc (single front) with something a little more suitable. Floating discs are not allowed. I need to remove the disc and measure offset.
As for the ignition, I'd like to run without a battery, with the stock set up,
maybe converting to the ZDG-3 eventually.
I don't want to butcher the electrics too badly as I'd like the option of putting it back on the street some day.
I will be getting a spare frame shortly, to lighten/ hack the extra lugs off.
Mathew
Last edited by mgill on 01 Dec 2009 06:26, edited 1 time in total.
MRC #2795
Those class eligibility rules that you've quoted appear to be similar to the UK rules. I found that the bike really only fell under the rules of the Earlystocks club which are basically, twin shock, air cooled, pre 1990. The grid is mixed classes with each class only actually racing for positions against other riders within the same class.
If you're going to be racing against TZeds etc on shorter tracks then it's very likely that you'll be lapped fairly early on which will cut your track time down. It's an expensive pastime and the few racing laps that you get in will work out quite expensive.
If you can find the right class to race in against similar bikes you'll have a good time.
A brief description of the state of tune of my race bike is
All unnecessary bits cut off the frame, fibreglass race seat fitted, I do have a custom made fibreglass Valentini race tank but I have never actually raced with it. It has a big empty void in the middle with a small fuel tank section at the front and the rear section used as an oil catch tank. I only ever raced with the standard steel tank.
Fibreglass front mudguard and fork brace.
Standard ignition used with no battery.
Falcon alloy rear shocks (fantastic)
30 grade fork oil in standard forks If I was racing again I would definately spend money upgrading the internals.
Standard front disc and caliper with a 14mm master cylinder. The master cylinder is a definate improvement over standard.
The brakes are another area that are in desparate need of improvement. I do have a PFM 320mm ductile iron floating disc that I was going to fit with either the standard calipers or maybe a Brembo caliper with sintered pads. I never got around to fitting it though. Your right forearm will get very tired with desparate late braking moves.
I have never used the rear brake.
Avon rear race tyre, Dunlop front race tyre.
Front forks turned around to put the caliper behind the fork leg.
Alloy clip ons
Tarrozzi rear sets (in my opinion ugly and poor quailty) better making your own. I would also convert to a left foot gearchange.
Scitzu electronic tacho (not really necessary)
Little weight saving things like turning down the steel spacer in the rear hub and making alloy spacers for the front hub and front and rear wheels.
520 chain conversion with alloy rear sprocket
Engine mods:
2mm overbore, L5 cam, lightened primary gears, standard heads, standard down pipes with open megas. Standard carbs with foam air filters. Some mods I have but again never got around to fitting are later model lightweight crank with roller main bearing, 500cc ported heads.
You can spend a lot of money here without any massive gains. Contrary to popular belief I think that a 500cc engine is a better starting point if the class will allow it. I did manage to pick up a 500cc six speed engine but have never run it.
On the standard engine I think that the small exhaust valves are restrictive as are the standard down pipes. Again against the advice of many I used individual foam air filters on the normal inlet rubbers with a small length of 40mm plastic drain pipe to connect the filters and some cable ties to secure the now wobbly carbs.
Don't forget that if you're carrying a bit of excess bagagge yourself, loosing that is a cheap performance improver.
H.
If you're going to be racing against TZeds etc on shorter tracks then it's very likely that you'll be lapped fairly early on which will cut your track time down. It's an expensive pastime and the few racing laps that you get in will work out quite expensive.
If you can find the right class to race in against similar bikes you'll have a good time.
A brief description of the state of tune of my race bike is
All unnecessary bits cut off the frame, fibreglass race seat fitted, I do have a custom made fibreglass Valentini race tank but I have never actually raced with it. It has a big empty void in the middle with a small fuel tank section at the front and the rear section used as an oil catch tank. I only ever raced with the standard steel tank.
Fibreglass front mudguard and fork brace.
Standard ignition used with no battery.
Falcon alloy rear shocks (fantastic)
30 grade fork oil in standard forks If I was racing again I would definately spend money upgrading the internals.
Standard front disc and caliper with a 14mm master cylinder. The master cylinder is a definate improvement over standard.
The brakes are another area that are in desparate need of improvement. I do have a PFM 320mm ductile iron floating disc that I was going to fit with either the standard calipers or maybe a Brembo caliper with sintered pads. I never got around to fitting it though. Your right forearm will get very tired with desparate late braking moves.
I have never used the rear brake.
Avon rear race tyre, Dunlop front race tyre.
Front forks turned around to put the caliper behind the fork leg.
Alloy clip ons
Tarrozzi rear sets (in my opinion ugly and poor quailty) better making your own. I would also convert to a left foot gearchange.
Scitzu electronic tacho (not really necessary)
Little weight saving things like turning down the steel spacer in the rear hub and making alloy spacers for the front hub and front and rear wheels.
520 chain conversion with alloy rear sprocket
Engine mods:
2mm overbore, L5 cam, lightened primary gears, standard heads, standard down pipes with open megas. Standard carbs with foam air filters. Some mods I have but again never got around to fitting are later model lightweight crank with roller main bearing, 500cc ported heads.
You can spend a lot of money here without any massive gains. Contrary to popular belief I think that a 500cc engine is a better starting point if the class will allow it. I did manage to pick up a 500cc six speed engine but have never run it.
On the standard engine I think that the small exhaust valves are restrictive as are the standard down pipes. Again against the advice of many I used individual foam air filters on the normal inlet rubbers with a small length of 40mm plastic drain pipe to connect the filters and some cable ties to secure the now wobbly carbs.
Don't forget that if you're carrying a bit of excess bagagge yourself, loosing that is a cheap performance improver.
H.
Some good tips there!
Ha!Ha! What is it they say, lose 6lbs per HP gained, or lose 1000GBP per
HP gained?!
I've raced a CB350 twin the last two years, the Morini is a dream to ride in comparison, and there's not that many TZ's in the club anyway!
As for the carb filters... I've got pod filters on mine now, and it seems that
anything above ~ 80 mph the engine runs rough. Wondering if placing the filters up under the tank with the set up you describe might help this?
I've got an airbox in the spares pile, but no box to carb rubbers.
Mathew
Ha!Ha! What is it they say, lose 6lbs per HP gained, or lose 1000GBP per
HP gained?!
I've raced a CB350 twin the last two years, the Morini is a dream to ride in comparison, and there's not that many TZ's in the club anyway!
As for the carb filters... I've got pod filters on mine now, and it seems that
anything above ~ 80 mph the engine runs rough. Wondering if placing the filters up under the tank with the set up you describe might help this?
I've got an airbox in the spares pile, but no box to carb rubbers.
Mathew
MRC #2795
Someone in the Grand Prix paddock at the Stafford show this weekend asked about earliest 350 production for eligability purposes. Stewart from NLM was there on Sunday and he said he'd be happy to go on the record that the first 50 frames were build in '72.
Paul Compton
http://www.morini-mania.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/EVguru
http://www.morini-mania.co.uk
http://www.youtube.com/user/EVguru
That's the best news I've heard in a long time. Thanks for that Paul.Someone in the Grand Prix paddock at the Stafford show this weekend asked about earliest 350 production for eligability purposes. Stewart from NLM was there on Sunday and he said he'd be happy to go on the record that the first 50 frames were build in '72
I'll be contacting Stewart.
MRC #2795
Yes, I was thinking that may not be enough.
I did make a request to allow it in P2 (max 1972) here's the response I recieved....
Mathew
I did make a request to allow it in P2 (max 1972) here's the response I recieved....
So then, if anyone has proof that Morini was selling 3½'s in 1972.Anyway, after researching the history of the 3 ½ the conclusion of the committee is that the bike didn’t hit the market until late 73 as a 74 model. This means it is a middleweight production or P3 light bike. As the bike is P2 technology, our suggestion is to put in a rule change proposal between now and the cut-off date in July to request that an exception be made for the 3 ½ and that it be included as a P2 Lwt bike.
Mathew
MRC #2795
-
corsaro chris
- Posts: 1162
- Joined: 13 Jul 2006 21:28
- Location: Berks, UK
Massimo Clarke in his book Moto Morini - Una Storia Italiana, records that the original bike was launched in Italy at the 1971 Milan show. The Sport followed in 1973 for the 1974 model year.
The bikes were available in Italy for some time before they were imported into the UK by Harglo - in early 1974. I very much doubt that any were raced in the UK prior to importing, but Devimead raced an early Sport from late 1974 and early 1975 (see pages 59 & 64 of Mick Walkers book for pictures).
The current Morini website has a helpful timeline under "history" - useful to reference. Hope this helps
CC
The bikes were available in Italy for some time before they were imported into the UK by Harglo - in early 1974. I very much doubt that any were raced in the UK prior to importing, but Devimead raced an early Sport from late 1974 and early 1975 (see pages 59 & 64 of Mick Walkers book for pictures).
The current Morini website has a helpful timeline under "history" - useful to reference. Hope this helps
CC
"I'll use the Morini"
-
Steve Brown
- Posts: 1401
- Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:44
- Location: Leicestershire
Yes, I fitted them to my 350. No scientific data to give but I felt they were an improvement. I also later, had larger inlet and exhaust valves and seats fitted along with an L5 cam. Apart from messing about with exhausts (again without any reliable data) that was the limit of my 'tuning'.
I won 2 championships too, in 1986 I think. As already said, the main contributors to success were reliability/consistency and weight saving for bike and rider. Oh yes being 20 something and exercising helped too. I never fell off the Morini (at least in a race) and I never finished higher placed than 3rd. Choosing the right race series and club was another major point. At the time, the 'Forgotten Era Racing Club' was new and growing, and most of the Yams and Suzies were not very reliable (they were just old bikes rather than pampered classics then) so all I had to do was maintain circulation at a modest rate and score points. After a couple of seasons the opposition got more serious and I had no option but to join them.
I don't think 'Forgotten Era' is a living club now, correct me if I'm wrong. I think in the UK at least, the CRMC has poached the idea with it's post classic series. Oh yes, K4 Hondas were just beginning to get into old banger racing in my time too, and even then they were a bit too fast to be fair!
they were never that quick on the road.
Good luck, and I hope you enjoy racing your Morini. If you want to collect trophies to impress your Grandkids though, you may need to bow to the rising sun. That's what I did, my grandkids haven't looked at the top shelf in the garage yet either.
I won 2 championships too, in 1986 I think. As already said, the main contributors to success were reliability/consistency and weight saving for bike and rider. Oh yes being 20 something and exercising helped too. I never fell off the Morini (at least in a race) and I never finished higher placed than 3rd. Choosing the right race series and club was another major point. At the time, the 'Forgotten Era Racing Club' was new and growing, and most of the Yams and Suzies were not very reliable (they were just old bikes rather than pampered classics then) so all I had to do was maintain circulation at a modest rate and score points. After a couple of seasons the opposition got more serious and I had no option but to join them.
I don't think 'Forgotten Era' is a living club now, correct me if I'm wrong. I think in the UK at least, the CRMC has poached the idea with it's post classic series. Oh yes, K4 Hondas were just beginning to get into old banger racing in my time too, and even then they were a bit too fast to be fair!
they were never that quick on the road. Good luck, and I hope you enjoy racing your Morini. If you want to collect trophies to impress your Grandkids though, you may need to bow to the rising sun. That's what I did, my grandkids haven't looked at the top shelf in the garage yet either.
Seems to me that finding a proper L5 camshaft may be in order.
Does anyone have a used one they would be willing to part with?
I've contacted NLM, AMEX, and DDD... and I could afford a week long bender in Las Vegas for the money they are asking....
PM or e-mail me if you can help.
Mathew
Does anyone have a used one they would be willing to part with?
I've contacted NLM, AMEX, and DDD... and I could afford a week long bender in Las Vegas for the money they are asking....
PM or e-mail me if you can help.
Mathew
Last edited by mgill on 06 Apr 2013 21:18, edited 1 time in total.
MRC #2795