End of Tether

[tankstraddler]

I cannot get that enthusiastic about any other motorcycle than the Morini 350. Mine makes me feel good every time I see it in the garage. It would make me feel even better were it to start readily and run reliably but as it is it is a pig to start and fails regularly on the road, the only positive being that I get my money's worth from AA Recovery.

I am no mechanic (there, I've said it) and it has been in different expert hands which has made me poorer but no wiser.

The carbs have been taken apart and re-assembled and adjusted many times with new rubbers between head and carb. The pick up was pronounced suspect and replaced with an NLM adjustable item. HT leads and plugs have been replaced, of course and I removed the suppressors from and fitted new plug caps, replcacing the suppressors with suitably sized metal rod.

Poor starting is sometimes solved by a bump start, which suggests ignition to me but the poor running which develops leading up to failure (kangarooing, cutting out on closing the throttle) feels like fuel starvation but a static time/quantity flow check on both taps and at both carbs seemed OK.

I appreciate that most carburation problems are caused by ignition and vice versa and that components wear or fail with age but my gut feeling is that there is something simple which is failing intermittently rather than anything more serious like worn or damaged valves, for instance.

So does anyone have any ideas or a suggested order in which they would check (how?) and eliminate various factors to try to get to the bottom of it? Many thanks as always to you wise people out there.

[3potjohn]

When my ignition coil went bad the bike would not start easily,but ran OK.

[72degrees]

Ignition winding on the stator would be my guess.

[dunk 1]

When i got my sport I had a long running problem where it would start easily go seven miles and then go onto 1 cylinder - it then wouldnt start until it had a rest for about half an hour and would be fine for another seven miles - except once in a while it did none of these things and went fine. I rebuilt the carbs and replaced the ht leads to no avail - once the stator was rewound it all worked perfecty - Duncan

[chirpy999]

You dont say where you are or how long you have owned your bike.
NLM are the people who know about morinis ( i dont work for them) .
Treat yourself and the bike and either ride it to NLM or get it trailered/delivered to them .

Theyll sort you out in no time.

Dave

[Daddy Dom]

Whatever you do, don't give up!!
I have had ignition/carb issues over 6 years ownership though now it's running so sweetly, all that is a distant memory (touch wood). Here's what I learnt from the experience:
if when we get a used bike, we presume the internals to be an unknown quantity, then it is safe to assume each component is as worn out as the next. When something in the chain is replaced with a new part all the others are going to feel the strain and one by one, will start to give out. Some will do this soon and some are just waiting for that rainy night.
Have faith, replace what is recommended, listen to the forum and join the Smoke list. Look for silly things - for example, rubbish ignition earths due to powdercoating or uneven float heights, be methodical and work in short bursts.

Which is running out faster, your patience or your wallet? NLM is a good suggestion and there are other Morini peeps in the UK but here in NZ I use folk with Guzzi/Triumph experience and an open mind.

Again, don't give up because:

Mine makes me feel good every time I see it in the garage.

Cheers,
Dom

[EVguru]

I built my first pair of ignition modules because my 250 twin developed a bad mid range missfire. On one occasion I rode it 70 miles before the problem occurred.

Then it started to rain and the problem went away!

That's when I worked out it was air temperature dependent, which must mean an ignition module.

The basics are a good flywheel (get it re-magnetised as a matter of course), a good ignition winding on the alternator (not hard to rewind), and a good pickup. After that you start to suspect the ignition modules and replacement is the only option. The circuit is pretty simple and details of how to build your own is on the Dutch Club's website. I've got one PCB left and all the other bits in stock. You have to sort out your own mounting/encapsulation though.

Poor starting is unlikely to be fuel flow, but intermittent running could be a faulty tank vent. My Gilera CX suffers from this from time to time and I have to run with the cap not screwed all the way on.

[Captain B]

Just caught this post tonight, and have to say thanks to tankstraddler for the original post, and to the comments and advice posted thereafter as it all rings a bell with me. On a couple of random occasions my 1982 Sport has stopped dead with that 'running out of fuel' feeling and then refuses to start with no spark at the plug. Sounds like a rewound alternator is on the cards and a remagenetised flywheel to go with it. Cheers all.

[tankstraddler]

Thanks to everyone for your contributions. I have now bought a meter and am about to check out what people have said here and what the workshop manual suggests. The general feeling here seems to be that if the resistance in the coil is 220 or more then it is OK but if it is substantially less then a re-wind is in order. I can check this now but does anyone have a rudimentary check on rotor magnetism like it should hold a 6oz steel spanner (or whatever)? Thanks.

[HoveActually]

On both my Strada & Sport the coils measure about 270ohms, quite high and look as tho they have been rewound with fine wire. Both bikes start really well, but I am a bit anal when it comes to checking / setting timing, tappets & balancing the carbs with vac gauges.

You can check the strength of the flywheel magnets by removing flywheel & laying on a piece of wood. Dangle a large screwdriver over each magnet - if the screwdriver is attracted to the flywheel with a resounding clang you're in business; if not get re-magnetised.

[tankstraddler]

Today I made a start. Firstly I removed the wires leading into the fuse box one by one and spayed each contact with contact cleaner. It was apparent that the wires from the alternator and the connectors were different from all of the others which suggests that, perhaps, the alternator has been rewound in the past. The vital green wire from the alternator made the worst contact of any of them in the fuse box, now solved with a pair of pliers. I do not think that this alone will solve anything but obviously the better the connections the better.

Resistance on the green wire from the alternator seemed to be between 175 and 195 depending on the connection made by the probes (see above) so I am thinking that the alternator is not that bad and I will try a re-magnetise first as the cheaper option.

Interestingly I discovered a Boyer Bransden Power Box with modified wiring to suit. This seems to be for the charging circuit only, maybe a replacement for a failed original equipment rectifier, so should have no impact on my problems except that one of its fixing points was being used as the earth for the two blue wires as standard plus an earthing wire from the Box. These three wires were clamped through the Box fixing point to the back plate supporting it and the fuse box. The fixing point under these wires was enamelled and the back plate is earthed where it is bolted to the frame so much scope for poor earthing it seemed to me.

I will report further progress but feel free to comment on the progress so far.

[SupermotoDave]

The club bike had a Boyer power box when it was donated and it was nothing but trouble. The mod was obviously to fix some problem but it was a wiring problem that caused the trouble with a fried loom that intermitantly shared power between the charging circuit and the ignition circuit, frying both the transducers twice.
The Boyer then had fried wires as well.
Put it back to standard where possible, but this is probably not the main cause of your problem.

#thefactoryknewwhatitwasdoing

David the Editor

[huub]

dump the original ignition , and invest in a aftermarket setup , like the mz-b.
your starting problems are pretty typical for older morini's.
after fitting a dart engine to my 350 , that had no ignition coil, i had to fit a aftermarket transistor ignition.
i couldn't believe the starting and idling.
a morini can idle at 800 revs and start by pushing the kickstarter down by hand, if it has a proper ignition fitted.

[EVguru]

dump the original ignition , and invest in a aftermarket setup , like the mz-b.
your starting problems are pretty typical for older morini's.

Every Morini I've owned and most of those I've worked on have had original ignition. I've never found one I couldn't get running right. Well perhaps one, I could never get my 250 to pull cleanly past 11,000rpm.

I've bought complete bikes for the price of the MZB (not recently it has to be said!).

Occasionally someone pops up on the email list complaining of a melted piston. I'll then ask if they have a Boyer ignition fitted. 100% hit rate so far.

Remember that most ignition faults are fueling related (and the reverse of course).

[huub]

Every Morini I've owned and most of those I've worked on have had original ignition. I've never found one I couldn't get running right. Well perhaps one, I could never get my 250 to pull cleanly past 11,000rpm.

I've bought complete bikes for the price of the MZB (not recently it has to be said!).

Occasionally someone pops up on the email list complaining of a melted piston. I'll then ask if they have a Boyer ignition fitted. 100% hit rate so far.

Remember that most ignition faults are fueling related (and the reverse of course).

i've got three morini's, all were purchased for less than a MZ-b set.
and i have little trouble starting them , either with a hefty kick , or a quick push start.
but my girl friend is pretty useless at starting morini's , despite being used to kick starters.
she can just manage my norton commando , and has no trouble with the guzzi nuovo falcone.
old morini's are not the easiest bikes to start.

if you want a morini that is easy to start, even at minus temperatures the ignition is the weakest point.
at least that is what i found out by using a bosch system ( similar to V50/pantah/laverda) on one of my 350 morini's
i can start my falcone ( a 500 cc single) by hand. despite crude points ignition.
show me somebody who kicks starts his morini by hand at minus temperatures, i'll show you a amazed man....