Runs on one hot

The 3 1/2 forum
eekzoids
Posts: 29
Joined: 16 Feb 2007 11:48
Location: galway, ireland

Runs on one hot

Post by eekzoids »

Follwing on from my posts of the same title 'runs on one hot' ; thanks to those who helped me with their replies. Eventually it just wouldnt start at all. Got new pick ups (standard Morini black pick up from NLM) ... also swapped out flywheel and stator from a friends 3.5 known to run well. To cut a long story short, having swapped out everything it seems like its the replacement transducer box at fault (single unit with the separate twin HT coils NLM part 460507 NLM).
OK so ....I have to buy a new transducer set from Mdina Italia. ok fine....but why did the other one pack up? any ideas anyone, has this happened to anyone else? I bought the replacement transducer 2009......and have probably done 2000 mile or less since then. Its a bit annoying. or should one just expect everyhting everything to pack up early these days? and whats to say the new one won't last pissing time either? any suggestions welcome.
3potjohn
Posts: 1243
Joined: 02 Jun 2007 13:58
Location: Devon

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by 3potjohn »

One of my grey transducers ,possibly an original so about 30 years old, failed when on my maiden run after rebuilding the motor and to get back home about 4 miles away I had to chug up a very steep and long hill, wincing as I did so. Luckily I had gathered a spare one whilst I still could.
John
eekzoids
Posts: 29
Joined: 16 Feb 2007 11:48
Location: galway, ireland

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by eekzoids »

Thank you. I am trying to gather information about the replacement transducer (single unit to replace double original) NLM part no. 460507.
They now appear to have the same part available from Mdina Italia....just wondering if anyone has had one of those fail.....before I buy another one. ( my originals only failed after 35 years as opposed to about only 8 or 9 years for the NLM replacement)
70sbikes
Posts: 96
Joined: 13 Nov 2014 11:44
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by 70sbikes »

My NLM single transducer unit was faulty from new (i.e. it never worked). I ended up buying Tritsch transducers.

Trevor
eekzoids
Posts: 29
Joined: 16 Feb 2007 11:48
Location: galway, ireland

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by eekzoids »

Thanks Trevor.....that's exactly the kind of info I'm looking for. It seems then I maybe wasting my money on another set of replacement NLM transducers. How long have you been running the Tritsch type and are they running fine? Do you know if they will work with either type of pick up ? and who sells them please?
julianharty
Posts: 478
Joined: 15 May 2016 16:34
Location: High Wycombe
Location: High Wycombe Area (Bucks)

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by julianharty »

Sadly, it looks like the person who sold the Tritsch Transducers has retired. https://w-tritsch.jimdo.com/ If you search for his name (Tritsch) on http://www.motomoriniclub.nl/tech.html you'll be knee-deep in various technical info on transducers, etc.

Unusually, I've 2 moto morinis that don't have the conventional ignition, the first has the later Kokusan alternator and ignition system and the older 3 1/2 has the German Sachs system https://www.elektronik-sachse.de/shopsy ... i-350.html which uses their fancy electronics and pickups combined with basic HT coils.

BTW: I've had various issues with poor running of this bike (I bought it without seeing it not realising it misbehaved) and have yet to determine whether the problems I've been having are related to ignition, carbs, or both. (I've been slowly working through diagnosing problems and addressing them e.g. the most recent issue was a slight air leak around the very old and rusty pin that blocks the carb balancer take-off point in the rubber carb inlet.

Oh, and I use an infra-red camera that fits in an iPhone to check the engine and exhaust temperatures on my bikes. It's both illuminating and insightful to do so. My older bike used to run cooler on the rear cylinder when I first got it. I ended up having to replace the tappet block (then the cylinder head as the exhaust thread insert was ejected and lost on the M40), then the rear carb float... If it'd help I'd be happy to have a chat, and if there's a practical way to meet then I can check the temperatures, timing, etc. I live near High Wycombe, just get in contact...
MickeyMoto
Posts: 2415
Joined: 22 Nov 2008 17:41
Location: Even further oop North

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by MickeyMoto »

Come on Julian keep up... :)

Tritsch retired and a company called Rocet.de carried on with the spares. I have used them and they are very good.

They may now have a website under a different name...
julianharty
Posts: 478
Joined: 15 May 2016 16:34
Location: High Wycombe
Location: High Wycombe Area (Bucks)

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by julianharty »

Thank you, and glad to have spurred you into helping solve this quest :)

Please don't tell me that http://www.rocet.de/ is the website... If so it's too vague for those that don't know to guess it's anything to do with Moto Morinis...

Oh, I've discovered that is the website viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5303 Oh well, sounds like emailing them your request might be the most practical way to find out if they've got suitable transducers.
norbert
Posts: 750
Joined: 15 May 2007 15:15
Location: Lübeck/Germany

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by norbert »

These are the sucessors of Wolfgang Tritsch. The website is still not ready but they are already working. The german meeting this year will be organized by them :wink:

http://www.tremezzo.de/
70sbikes
Posts: 96
Joined: 13 Nov 2014 11:44
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by 70sbikes »

I've run the Tritsch transducers for years now with no problems. I also use an NLM pickup, which is also trouble free.
eekzoids
Posts: 29
Joined: 16 Feb 2007 11:48
Location: galway, ireland

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by eekzoids »

Thanks to everyone who has offered information about the transducers....I think I'll be chasing after some Tritsch ones ....
eekzoids
Posts: 29
Joined: 16 Feb 2007 11:48
Location: galway, ireland

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by eekzoids »

Ok .....I have e mailed rocet.de to see if they can supply me with a Tritsch transducer set..will let you know how I get on including price etc. Special thanks to Julian Harty for his long and earnest reply and for offering to meet me.....unfortunately the West of Ireland where I live isn't quite close enough to High Wycombe for an afternoon ride hook up but thanks for offering
eekzoids
Posts: 29
Joined: 16 Feb 2007 11:48
Location: galway, ireland

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by eekzoids »

Thanks to those who put me on to rocet.de
Here is the reply I received

Hello John,

As replacement for the original Morini transducer (Part-No. 32.39.21 = square black transducer box) we can offer the blue transducer box ‘Ducati’ No. 32398112 at a price of EUR 46,90 net per piece, plus shipping costs, plus VAT. If you want to order please confirm by answering this e-mail. We will send the part as soon as possible then. Please indicate your shipping address. No advance payment necessary. Invoice comes with delivery.

Kind regards

Thomas Liebrandt

ROCET GmbH

....thing is my transducers were the grey coloured ones (before I replaced them with failed NLM transducers)
Sooooo....if as they say these replacements are for the square black transducers....will they be compatible with my
later black pick up? ....
User avatar
Ming
Posts: 798
Joined: 01 Aug 2014 16:32
Location: France
Location: Central France

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by Ming »

Is it worth trying a pair of Vespa ignitors (like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vespa-px-lam ... ctupt=true)?
I think they have been discussed on this forum and other places. Also, have a look at http://www.motomoriniclub.nl/tech.html#table.
mbmm350s
Posts: 666
Joined: 22 Jun 2018 10:18
Location: Reading UK
Location: Berkshire UK

Re: Runs on one hot

Post by mbmm350s »

As Ming says: Please check here:
I think they have been discussed on this forum and other places. Also, have a look at http://www.motomoriniclub.nl/tech.html#table.
And I recommend to see Soren Hansen's informative videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWyYDVuvCp8

Also you can see the diagram of the Ducati Energie part here:

http://www.motelek.net/andere/cdi/ducat ... 12-cdi.png


So you can see there is 470 ohms resistor to control the advance curve, this is more like the 500 black box. Many have used these parts on 350s and report they are good.
Because of this resistor you should replace these as a PAIR or there will be difference in the advance curve between each cylinder.
This ignition is suitable to work with the RED pickups. If you have the black pickup then you need to add diodes (1n4007) in series (cathode towards the ignition box) with each wire from the pickup, this is because there is no diode inside the transducer of 32398112 part (red terminal).
But to make sure, when you receive the boxes you can check the existence of diode or not ,by attempting to measure the resistance from the red terminal to the ground terminal, if you can make a resistance measurement in both directions of the meter connections then there is no diode.

The ground leads are short, so may need extending and also be sure to connect the white (also ground) together by link wire this adds earth redundancy.

I am curious to know if the fault cylinder of the NLM box is the rear one, i.e the front is running hot.

Mark
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