engine removal - advice

Maestro, SEI-V
Tim
Posts: 43
Joined: 03 Jan 2016 17:47
Location: Brentford
Location: Dorset

engine removal - advice

Post by Tim »

The time has come to remove the engine from my 500 sei and I'd appreciate any hints and tips that might make the task go a bit more smoothly. The exhaust system and carbs are off and nuts and bolts securing it loosened. I want to remove as little as possible (air filter housing for instance). I was going to use a small trolley jack to take the weight of the engine but wondered which side is it easier to pull out of?

Also Im anticipating needing a rebore/hone so any recommendations for auto engineers in the south west (Yeovil/Exeter/Dorchester) would be useful - anyone used Auto Engineering in Chard?

Thanks in advance
Tim
norbert
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Joined: 15 May 2007 15:15
Location: Lübeck/Germany

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by norbert »

Take off the airfilters, the CDI boxes can stay.
I suppose the oil is alredy drained.
Take off the right hand cover, flywheel and alternator before removing for easier handling.
Take off the front mounting plates.
Place the trolly jack.
Take off the two rear bolts.

I don´t know wether your ignicion key is placed on the left hand frame. Then it´s easier to take it off to the right side.
Leave the kickstart lever conected. It´s a nice handle together with the front cilinder :wink:
MickeyMoto
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Joined: 22 Nov 2008 17:41
Location: Even further oop North

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by MickeyMoto »

Cover frame tubes, pipe insulation is good, I have used bubble wrap in the past.

You will need to move the engine forward from the rear mounts. The engine will most likely want to pivot front down. Earlier frames had more room.

It is not a heavy lump, but heavy enough, if you have to heave it onto a bench.
mbmm350s
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Joined: 22 Jun 2018 10:18
Location: Reading UK
Location: Berkshire UK

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by mbmm350s »

I do exactly the same as Norbert and Mike even down to the pipe insulation so long as mice haven't eaten it.

I also undo the clutch centre nut while the engine in frame.

Mark
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72degrees
Posts: 1549
Joined: 31 Aug 2007 21:24
Location: West Midlands

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by 72degrees »

Getting a 350 out of a 250 frame is more of a struggle.

A trolley jack is a bit harsh 'naked' so I use a natty inflatable pouch between the jack and the crankcase and another between the front engine mountings and the case. They are sold for all sorts of small lifting/expanding jobs. Sourced off Ebay. Take up the slack on the jack then pump up both the bags to take the weight off the upper rear mounting bolt and it will pull smoothly out (if suitable anti-seized on fitting last time). Vent the front bag and the weight comes off the lower rear mount in a similar fashion.
engineout.jpg
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penman
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Joined: 08 Mar 2016 09:20
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Location: Milton Keynes

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by penman »

As someone said, this engine isn't awfully heavy, but another approach I've used with heavier engines is to lay the bike down on its side - with suitable padding of course. Then after releasing the mountings etc, you can either lift the engine out sideways or lift the frame off the engine, leaving it lying on the floor. When I took my early 500 engine out, I seem to remember it's a fairly snug fit in the frame and getting it out needed quite a bit of jiggling it about before it slipped out. The bike on its side trick can make this easier. Whichever way you do it, a second pair of hands makes it a lot easier. Good luck with it!
1984 Moto Guzzi V65
1969 Honda CB450
1975 Triumph T160 Trident
2019 BMW F750GS Sport
1978 Morini 500
Tim
Posts: 43
Joined: 03 Jan 2016 17:47
Location: Brentford
Location: Dorset

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by Tim »

Thanks everyone for the hints and tips - much appreciated
I managed to remove the engine OK - I've got a picture but I could use some advice on how to post it here.
it was fairly a straightforward task - I tried to remove as little as possible so left the air filter housing and on. It worked although I had to remove the ignition barrel in the end. I used a trolley jack which was a real boon for easing it around in the frame - I also used pieces of thickish cardboard to protect the sump and frame etc - it seemed to do a good job. I brought it out on the left side as I left the kick start on - its a useful handle!

The only problem I encountered was Iwhen jacking it up I had trouble getting it out of the rear mounts - couldn't understand why until I saw that the front rocker cover was jamming up against the steering damper - removed that and hey presto.

Interesting to find it had an engine number which is completely out of sight of when in the frame - luckily it matches the frame number!!

Bad news is there was traces of red gasket sealant on the crankcase join - looks like it may have been messed with in the past - oh well...

I'll add further updates once the head and barrels are off - wish me luck!!
George 350
Posts: 450
Joined: 16 Jun 2007 09:43
Location: Northampton

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by George 350 »

Hi Tim,
"Bad news is there was traces of red gasket sealant on the crankcase join - looks like it may have been messed with in the past - oh well.."
Might not be as bad as you think. Morini used a dark red silicon sealant around the engine anywhere where there wasn't a proper gasket, and in some places where there was as well, eg cylinder base gaskets if they were the alloy ones.
Regards,
George
George
350 sport 1978, 350 Strada 1978
650 Norton 1967, 650 Kawasaki 1977 and 650 Enfield 2019
mbmm350s
Posts: 666
Joined: 22 Jun 2018 10:18
Location: Reading UK
Location: Berkshire UK

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by mbmm350s »

Hi Tim
Tim wrote: 01 Feb 2023 18:48
Interesting to find it had an engine number which is completely out of sight of when in the frame - luckily it matches the frame number!!
That usually means that the bike was destined for export from Italy, to countries that required engine number marking.
Home i.e Italy modular air cooled Morinis rarely had the engine numbers.

There is no luck or otherwise associated with having matching engine numbers for a Moto Morini,
as previously stated the vast majority didn't have them anyway.

Cheers Mark
Tim
Posts: 43
Joined: 03 Jan 2016 17:47
Location: Brentford
Location: Dorset

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by Tim »

so the dismantling of the front pot has revealed the reason for the chronic lack of compression - cracked and burnt exhaust valve!! Piston and cylinder are on the verge of needing a rebore but I think new rings might be enough. HOWEVER of rather more concern is the crack between the exhaust and inlet valve. The blue book advises replacement but I'm trembling at the the thought...

Any thoughts??
3potjohn
Posts: 1243
Joined: 02 Jun 2007 13:58
Location: Devon

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by 3potjohn »

Cracks between the valves is a known issue on the 500 bikes. Have a search in this section using “welding cracked heads” as the search term from around 2019.
At least you have found the crack.
John
norbert
Posts: 750
Joined: 15 May 2007 15:15
Location: Lübeck/Germany

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by norbert »

Hi Tim,

can you post a foto of that crack. Most 500 and even more 501 heads have this cracks between the valve seats if they have been used for a bigger amount of km. If the crack is small and the material has not raised yet, normaly you can go on for quite a lot of km. But you should control the valve clearence from time to time. If the clearence disapears, things become serious.
I´m riding 501 heads with small cracks for many years. My experience is ,that there nearly are no 501 heads without cracks if they have run more than 30-40 thousand km :roll:
3potjohn
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Joined: 02 Jun 2007 13:58
Location: Devon

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by 3potjohn »

My 507 heads have already been repaired before I got the bike. The receipt in this case was spectacular.
Electron beam or Laser welding have previously been mentioned but I have no personal experience of this.
John
Tim
Posts: 43
Joined: 03 Jan 2016 17:47
Location: Brentford
Location: Dorset

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by Tim »

Crack no valves.jpg
Crack no valves.jpg (41.62 KiB) Viewed 4162 times
Here’s a photo of the head (front) I’ll post a pic of the rear head once it’s off. Is this crack too big to ignore?
Thanks for comments so far - v useful
Interested in how spectacular that receipt was ?!
norbert
Posts: 750
Joined: 15 May 2007 15:15
Location: Lübeck/Germany

Re: engine removal - advice

Post by norbert »

Hm, that´s quite a crack :wink:
If the material is still plain and not raised and the seats have not been introduced, I myself would keep on riding. But as said, controling the valve gap from time to time. It also depends how many miles a year you´re riding the bike.
I don´t know the market for 500 heads, but i guess it´s a bit easier to find than a 501 one. Probably a spare piece will be scheaper than the repair, or not :roll:

I´ll continue with tis one witout any doubt, but for me it´s a premium crack. When I mounted this head to Dulcinea 2017, 35.000 km ago, there was no crack (have worse ones working in Rocinante). As you see, the material between the seats in a 501 is even less compared to the 478 ccm because of bigger valves.
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