Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Maestro, SEI-V

Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Seagreen » 24 Jan 2018 10:00

Hi,
I would like to introduce myself; I have just joined the Morini Riders Club having recently bought a 1984 Morini 500 from Denmark - this is now in the process of being re-commissioned - there are a number of faults that I have found, the biggest to date was the sprocket driven by the starter motor - it was minus 8 teeth so there was a dreadful cacophony when the starter button was depressed!! I guess that I have always liked Morini V twins and since I am looking to downsize a bit from my Laverda triple and Moto-Guzzi 1000, so when this popped up on eBay at a price that I felt I could afford, I placed a bid and to my surprise I won it!
I do have a couple of questions for those in the know:
1. Should the fuel line from the RH tap under the tank feed into the solenoid operated fuel tap or should it feed directly into the carb below it (as mine is set up) thus acting as a reserve in the event of solenoid failure - can't see the point of it otherwise?
2. What fuel is best used - the manual specifies 5 star (no longer available) so is it best to add one of the octane booster additives? Should the fuel be lead free - as far as I know the head has not had any conversion work on it but perhaps was already fitted with suitable valve seats for lead free fuel?
3. Is there a good alternative to the standard air filter arrangement - seems an unnecessarily awkward & time consuming job to check the filters - is there a good K & N or equivalent filter that can be fitted? Would that upset the jetting?
4. Recommended engine oil for UK use?
I am sure that I will have more questions to ask another time but if anyone has any suggestions/answers/comments I would be very grateful if they could post them.

Thanks in advance,
Charles
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Ming » 24 Jan 2018 11:58

Welcome Charles, I'm sure you'll find your 500 enjoyable. Moto Morinis are a bit like Marmite - you either love them or hate them.
For your starter (and lots of other things), Paul Compton's youtube channel is a mine of information, I would recommend you have a look there.
The output from the two taps should go to each of the carbs, with a teed connection between the carbs, right-hand tap is reserve, as you said. Don't run with both open as you can run out of petrol in the most deserted of places (ask how I know...)
I use straight 95, seems OK. You can read an article on their view of it on NLMs website.
General opinion is that the engines run best with the original airbox and, unless you are going to do a big mileage in dirty conditions, shouldn't need much attention.
Recommended oil is semi-synthetic, though I think that regular changes are better than being particular about which oil.
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Seagreen » 24 Jan 2018 14:07

Hi Ming,

Thanks for your welcome and reply. I have used Paul Compton's Youtube clips already for dismantling and rebuilding the starter motor and the gearbox - very good it was so a big thanks to him for taking the time and effort.
Regarding the fuel taps - what is the purpose of the LH tap's solenoid. Is it there because in normal use this is the only tap that is opened and therefore when the bike is stopped, the solenoid will automatically return to the Normally Closed state thus reducing the likelihood of fuel leaking passed the carb float valves and thence flooding into the engine? Does not encourage the discipline of turning the taps off after every trip and thus increases the likelihood of the emergency tap (RHS) being left on if it has been called into use? I won't ask about how you know about running out of fuel, I have been there on more than one occasion!!!
I will have a look at NLM website for fuel type.
Airbox and oil - well I will take your advice and will think about how to access the filters more easily.

Thanks again,
Charles
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby MickeyMoto » 24 Jan 2018 17:22

Hi Charles,

Solenoid is exactly as described. It is for lazy people like me. It should give a nice 'tunk' sound when switching on the ignition. Solenoid connects on left carb. reserve tap on right and carbs. linked. Most solenoids have been replaced by a standard tap.

I use Halfrauds 10/40 semi (it's an age thing!) bought when on offer. Change at 3k miles or annually for me.

Leave air filters alone. Should not have much need to go there too often.

I use 95 in mine. See NLM website for more on unleaded.

I buy my belts from RS. I use Continental and change yearly. No guarantees, though!

Adios (!)
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Seagreen » 24 Jan 2018 18:03

Hi Mickey,

Good to hear from you and thanks for your response. I will take heed of your advice which seems pretty much in agreement with Ming's advice - always good when there is agreement on these things and will check the NLM website re fuel type. If you are using a lower grade of fuel have you had to retard the ignition at all to stop the engine pinking? I bought my belt from NLM and will check for manufacturer's logo etc.

Thanks again,
Adios,
Charles
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Steve Brown » 24 Jan 2018 23:02

I'll add my vote to those above. 95 seems perfectly fine for these engines. I hammered my 350 for over 100,000 miles on plain old 2 star. They don't need the lead additives it seems, possibly because it was already out of use in America years before? In fact when I had the bike new I used to put 4 star in it thinking that was sensible to do. It was only after a year or so of failing spark plugs that I mentioned it to Stuart at NLM. He asked if I used 4 or 5 star? He'd realised it was depositing lead on the electrodes and shorting them out. I started buying 2 star and stopped buying spark plugs, it worked!
I also ran plain 20W/50 for years as it said GTX in the manual, but switching to 10W/40 has also passed without incident.
In the main these aren't fussy bikes but they can be fussy about air filters. The standard works well and doesn't restrict a road bike at all. As yours is new to you I can understand the urge to check them, but they wash clean in petrol and last forever without needing attention. So, once checked they can be left alone for a long while. If your 500 breathes a lot of mess into the filters then it's worth a check of course! Does yours still have the breather box venting into the air cleaner? As it enters on the inside of the filter it takes an awful lot to foul them up.
NLM will almost certainly have a new starter sprocket for you, I was in there a week or two ago for starter bits and there seemed to be everything available. Noot long ago we were all throwing these starters away...now we all want them back again :oops:
Hope you enjoy your Morini, and red ones are always faster.
All donations to the rest home for old Camels, Leicestershire.
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Seagreen » 25 Jan 2018 09:26

Hi Steve, thanks for your reply and advice, seems much in line with the previous 2 responses which is very encouraging. About to renew the cam belt but it is proving stubborn to remove from its pulleys!
Thanks again,
Adios,
Charles
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Ming » 25 Jan 2018 11:50

If the old cam belt won't come off (and it may have been on for a long time), you can always cut it off with a sharp blade. Make sure you don't move either of the pulleys from their alignment marks (I highlight them with a spot of paint) as you push on the replacement. I sometimes use a fine dusting of talc if it's reluctant.
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Seagreen » 25 Jan 2018 14:01

Hi Ming, thanks for the talc suggestion - will consider using it on another occasion. I did manage to coerce the old belt off - it tore quite easily when I put a pit of leverage to the side of it, bit surprised as how readily it did tear so perhaps it was a good idea to renew it. Putting the new one on was painstakingly slow but got there in the end - talc would have been good then, if I had read your tip beforehand.
Thanks again,
Adios,
Charles
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby MickeyMoto » 25 Jan 2018 15:00

... and it will smell nice, too!
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Seagreen » 25 Jan 2018 16:16

Mmmmm Bisto!
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby TimG. » 26 Jan 2018 11:10

Fuel: I use BP Ultimate or ESSO Supreme+ as they are both Ethanol free. For a few pence more a litre I prefer not to have this hydroscopic corrosive rubbish in my fuel, potentially causing damage to paint, tanks and carbs - especially on vehicles that are not used regularly.
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Seagreen » 26 Jan 2018 11:21

I agree with you Tim, ethanol addition is not a good thing and I suspect that its days may be numbered - I hope so anyway.
Thanks,
Charles
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby harrymuffin » 26 Jan 2018 17:17

People seem to forget that alcohol or in the form of ethanol was mixed with petrol right up to the late sixties and improved the running of just about every petrol engined vehicle going. The Old Man always filled up the car before going on holiday with it rather than 5* as he reckoned the engine ran smoother and cooler. It allowed you to advance the ignition if you could be bothered and had the benefit of keeping the engine cool. Regarding the hygroscopic nature of the product, it does aborb water but in such small quantities when enclosed in a steel container that it is undetectable. experiments have shown that the take up of moisture has to be in a continually agitated pouring of the fuel from one tin to another. The 21/2 gallons that you have in your tank even if left for a couple of months is unlikely to absorb anything. Calcification in the carbs will take place irrespective of leaded or normal fuel. I run the engine with the fuel switched off to empty the carbs if not using for a while. When 'sprinting' Vincents in the 1960s running on 100% methanol, we always had to run the engines before loading onto the trailer, for 15mins or so on petrol to make sure there was no methanol in the engine including crankcases otherwise the methanol would with the water desolve the aluminium. I run 'old' vehicles that were manufactured when Cleveland Discol was manufactured, Regent also made a ethanol fuel and the reason production was stopped was due to Esso buying these refineries up because they used tetra ethal lead to boost the octane ratings. The Distillers Company started producing ethanol to be blended with petrol in the 1920's so higher compression could be used and I think the blends were up 15% - maybe higher but at those levels it would separate out unless benzene was added which like TEL is also carcinogenic. If you look in the back of "Tuning for Speed" there are various formulas for fuels all containing alcohol.

Don't forget the Heron head was developed at the RAE during the 1st World War by Major Heron so that higher compression ratios could be used in aero engines when octane ratios were around 50 if that. I have always used the cheapest fuel available usually 2* as these engines have the hardened valve seats from new, and perhaps from the adrenalin rush or wind noise have never experienced or heard pre detonation.

If any of you have access to a very erudite article written in the MG MMM register, then ethanol absorption rates are explained and largely follow other commentators on the over zealous hype of these fuels, as well as problems with heat soak causing air locks, a problem I had when the TR6 was last MoT'ed with the separate fuel lines to the injectors having to be bled, because the idiot tester kept the engine ticking over and then switched the engine off with the bonnet closed. Then the advantages are that the engines run cooler and the AC I have been able to advance the timing not only back to where it was but run slightly more advanced.

I think you will find that even the super dooper fuels have to have 5% alcohol added, the only way to get round the stuff is to used leaded 4* specially for classic vehicles and available at selected garages or buy the stuff in 55gal drums. I used to use this but the cost and the inconvenience was not worth the effort. And although I tried aviation fuel 115 octane don't bother any more when explained as it is blended for high altitude, so vaporisation at our levels is slower, so up setting carburation unless you live in the Alps or on top of Everest.
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Seagreen » 26 Jan 2018 18:05

Hi Harrymuffin, thanks for the info about the addition of ethanol - I did not know that ethanol was added as standard to petrol up to the end of the sixties; can't recall my dad ever adding it either but perhaps a Hillman Minx would not have benefited from it? What ratio of ethanol to petrol did The Old Man use?
The chemical characteristics of ethanol include its ability to attack various plastics and elastomers so its addition to modern fuels means that engines not designed with this in mind may suffer adverse affects. Thus to my mind it is something that is probably best avoided although I cannot comment on your statement about older vehicles running more smoothly with the ethanol addition. One of my principle reasons for advocating against ethanol is that its primary source these days is from the bioethanol process in which ethanol production has taken over many farms that otherwise produced food for local communities; the proceeds of this industry do not get ploughed back into that community, in general, so impoverished peoples become even more impoverished - not good.
Adios,
Charles
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