Another New Member_fuel lines & more

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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby harrymuffin » 27 Jan 2018 20:21

If you look up Cleveland Discol or the Distillers Company, then there should be an accurate account of the amount of alcohol blended, I will look it up for you if someone does not post before the weekend is out. Do you have to be rude about my father, only I am allowed to call him The Old Man? If you have been following all the hype in the old car fraternity then they were all up in arms about the rubber seal if the engines had them, used not being suitable for alcohol blends of fuels. We seem now to have another group that is now arguing against its use on vehicles that were designed since it was readily available - I give up.

There is nothing wrong with rapeseed oil being used as a fuel, Mr Ford designed his engines specifically to run on bio fuels at the turn of the previous century owing to petrol garages being 500 miles apart, the local farmers could then produce their own fuel. Brasil has been producing bio fuels for at least 20 years, `I think the laws there were that at weekends all cars had to run on 30% alcohol blends and 'normal' during the week. I believe there was some fuss on the cars not running as well obviously because the carburettors did not have bigger jets fitted but then most of their cars were VW Beetles so who cares. On the Vincents sprint bikes with Amal GP carbs we could not get main jets big enough and would drill the jets out having worked out what the cross sectional area should be. A lot of the people would shave off the fins of the barrels to try and get the engines warm. In the Vintage club at the time, and before that, it was common to race at Cadwell with 100% methanol, a friend had a MK1 KTT Velo with a CR of around 12:1 with reduced finning on the already skimpy finned barrel and the engine would still come back just warm.

Modern engines with plastic inlet manifolds already take these modern fuels into account. Old car fuss pots are stripping down their engines to put in Viton seals which was not available before the 1960's (I can be corrected on that) and if you insist on using leaded petrol in your nice hew GlobBox, if you can find the designated garages that are licensed to stock it, try a back to back run and see if it is worth the £1.50 a litre or however much it is now. Do you really want to go back to the 15,000 miles decoke as it was then - if you can unglue a modern engine in the first place, or simply run the car to its life time life of 70,000 miles and scrap it?

If you can remember back to the 1970's farmers were paid by the Common Agricultural Policy and Europe and created all sorts of surpluses, wine surpluses that was poured away(could have distilled the alcohol off), butter mountains(could have made diesel), wheat stockpiles(alcohol) that the rats ate etc. If developing countries which sounds like yours and mine concern, were more efficient in their farming and controlled the corruption and misappropriation of aid, then they would be able to produce biofuels to cook with and perhaps run tractors rather than importing kerosine and deforesting the forests to cook with. I read recently that about thirty years ago this country produced around 1200 tons of rapseed a year, that amount is in the hundred of thousands now, which is used in a variety ways from bio fuels, cooking oils, lubricating oils etc. The farmer across from me has started growing the stuff because he cannot sell the crops that you perhaps think he should grow. Is it that much different that America converts all the corn on the cobs into sugars that have created that country to be classed as Fat(sorry PC says clinically obese) and sell us the same as 'modified maize starch' to put into out Macdonalds BSE burgers and other processed instant crap because the average person cannot cook?

Sorry I am digressing, but I do understand your concerns, but having followed this lead free fuel and ethanol thing for 30years and reading all the doom mongers and ill informed why not just enjoy what we have got and throw anything into the tank as long as it burns, some of us won't be here when you others will all be standing around to have the batteries recharged at the side of the road with your ranges of about thirty miles.
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby George 350 » 28 Jan 2018 12:45

Hi Harry, I realise that you are somewhat irate about the various stories about biofuels, but you miss out on , or ignore several FACTS.
1/ Bad news if you have any nylon anywhere in your fuel system as it will degrade and remarkably quickly too. That is why the float material was changed by Dell Otto.. I accept it is most extreme on 85% - 100%ethanol. All cars and bikes used in Brazil have much higher spec fuel systems - stainless steel etc to cope with the stuff. 2/ I hope you don't have Nicasil or Gilardoni cylinders as has a very serious corrosion issue with high percentage biofuel use - check out BMW and Jaguar problems during the early to mid 1990's in Brazil. Both had to go back to cast iron to cope with the corrosion issues. 3/ It is not very good in cold weather at vaporising, hence the 15% petrol in Europen E85. Even very modern direct fuel injection engines start poorly in cold weather (not an issue in Brazil). You will have poor starting with a catburettor and big problems with carburettor icing. 4/ Your fuel economy will drop between 10 and15% using E85 at best. 5/ Most importantly, it costs a LOT in terms of energy used to make ethanol. Far more fuel is burnt growing, harvesting and making the stuff than it can ever contain so it isn't a 'green' fuel at all.
Me? I'll keep on using the ethanol free 97Ron fuels as it will be best for my bike and the environment.
Regards, George
350 sport 1978, 350 Strada 1978
George 350
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby MickeyMoto » 29 Jan 2018 08:13

This is interesting stuff. What appears to be 'green' usually isn't. We are never given the full facts. How 'green' is a windmill, if you take the CO2 cost of the manufacture, the concrete base and the building and design work? No idea. Diesel? CO2 emissions reduced, but allegedly leads to 40,000 premature deaths per year. Catalytic converters? A 'fix' that uses rare metals? I don't live in a city, I'll just continue enjoying my bike on 95 fuel. I do 3000 miles per annum on each of my bikes. With the UK producing <2% of global CO2 i shan't worry whilst China, India and the US produce 70%. I believe the Paris treaty allows developing countries to produce more filth and greenhouse gases so we can sell them more stuff. Strange world.
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Seagreen » 29 Jan 2018 09:48

Well, thanks for all your postings and I apologise for stirring up a hornets nest with regards to fuel types for my 500 Morini. All interesting stuff with plenty of information that I did not know about eg ethanol addition being standard to pre late 60's fuel. I think that I will try running on regular unleaded fuel at first and then try it on unleaded super and see what difference, if any, I can detect.
Thanks again,
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby TimG. » 29 Jan 2018 16:51

Taken from the Esso website this afternoon:

The majority of unleaded 95 Octane petrol sold in the UK contains up to 5% ethanol as required under the Government’s Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO).

There is currently no requirement for renewable fuel (such as ethanol) to be present in super unleaded (97 grade petrol).

Esso super unleaded petrol (Synergy Supreme+ Unleaded 97) is ethanol free (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). We would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme+ – providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Seagreen » 29 Jan 2018 17:47

Hi TIm, Mickey, George and Harry

Thanks for the Esso info Tim.
I feel that perhaps it might be worth starting a new thread on this whole petrol debate as I suspect that it will go on for a while and may be of interest to other Morini owners? Not sure how we get them transferred - do you?

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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby Quinlan3353 » 01 Feb 2018 19:07

Just offering some information on the ethanol content of super-unleaded fuels, because I have been asking the UK oil companies about this in recent weeks.
BP tell me that Ultimate 97 octane is increasingly supplied with ethanol. Sometimes it has ethanol and sometimes it does not, and they cannot be categorical about it. (My observation: the uncertainty is probably because BP does not have a refinery in the UK now, so they are buying their fuels elsewhere.)
ExxonMobil say that Supreme 97 octane does not contain ethanol, except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland. (Again, this suggests to me that they are buying fuels from other sources in these areas.)
Still waiting for a reply from Shell about V-Power.

I think ethanol is best avoided. I now have rust inside the tank of my 1978 Bonneville (owned from new), which I have never had in the past. My 3 1/2 Strada definitely prefers 97 octane fuel -- it feels smoother -- and it seems to me that 95 is a bit low for a 10:1 compression engine.


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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby acemorini » 02 Feb 2018 17:47

Hello, after reading this thread I changed fuel companies today, I have run my 81 Strada on shell v power for the last year, but over the last couple of months the bike has been running really bad, symptoms included bad starting, the dreaded stuttering coming of the pilot jets and last week it would not rev over 7 k, I cleaned the cards out and rebalance them still no difference.
When out today and I thought need to fill up I will try Esso supreme, after 2 or 3 miles the bike was running like it used to, no stuttering, pulling thought the Rev range right up to 9 k and even ticking over, coincidence? I don’t know but I will be useing Esso fuel in the Morini’s from now on.
Regards Pete.
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Re: Another New Member_fuel lines & more

Postby harrymuffin » 02 Feb 2018 18:30

I ran my two Morinis up yesterday which have been standing for some five months which is unusual for me as I try to run all the sorned bikes and cars once a month. They both have Sainsbury's 2* finest in the tank and after all the doom mongering I assumed i would have problems starting. The oversize 500 because I could not be bothered to fit a battery started with half a kick and once the whole was off let it warm up at around 1400-1500 revs. The other the 507 cc with 12-1 compression rather than the standard 11.1 started instantly on the starter motor and again once off the choke settled down to 1400 revs tick over - it has chronometric rev and speedo.
Once the oil was hot in the external oil filters ran them up the lane and both pulled cleanly through the rev range to the self imposed 7500 limit and then put them back to bed. Both these engines have 1970's Dellorto plastic floats, nylon float needles and all the seals standard so aam wondering when they are all going to desolve or is it just how we set up our engines and full are horses for course. Oh. forgot the hybrid has Gilardoni barrels to waiting for the nikasil to peel off like the Porches V8 engines from the 70's using leaded petrol.
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