501 Camel Fork Questions

Camel, Sahara, Kanguro, Coguaro

501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby fofs216 » 05 Nov 2018 13:29

Hi Folks,

I have later 501 brake disc forks fitted to my mk1 Camel, the forks have gold sliders with 40mm tubes and 380 stamped upon them.

One of the seals is leaking, very badly! When I stripped the forks down yesterday both tubes/stanchions came out easily and despite having what appears to be a 10-15mm lower bushing indentation no lower bushes were actually present. Does anybody know if lower bushes were actually fitted to the later 501 Marzocchi forks?

Also, one of the legs (the leaky one) held 250ml of oil whilst the other held 450ml. Does anybody have any information as to how much oil or level from the top measurement please?

I have the Marzocchi manual titled Forcella Piffero which contains details for earlier 32,35 and 38 mm drum forks which gives some confusing information on oil levels and doesn't appear to show a lower bush....

Many many thanks in advance,
Jamie
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby 'It must be a .....' » 05 Nov 2018 15:32

Hi, I've never taken a set of these forks apart; but the non electric start 501 Camel has 40mm forks with no bushes and the 501 Coguaro has 40mm forks with bushes.
So it sounds like the 501 electric start has forks similar to the Coguaro?
There are parts books and handbooks on the Italian club site.
480 ml in each fork leg.
From the 501 Camel (electric start) handbook; 'fill each stem with 480 gr. Castrol TQF or equivalent'
Have fun, Ian

PS All the PDF files I have were too big for the forum and it would be better to download them directly, once found.
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby fofs216 » 05 Nov 2018 17:04

Hi Ian,

Great thank you! So it looks like I've lost over 200 ml of fluid, most of it appears to be all over my brake pads and disc!!!!

I've pm'd you ref the handbook you mentioned and thanks again for replying.

Jamie
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby 72degrees » 05 Nov 2018 18:18

'It must be a .....' wrote:.
480 ml in each fork leg.
From the 501 Camel (electric start) handbook; 'fill each stem with 480 gr. Castrol TQF or equivalent'


To be pedantic - the specific gravity of Castrol TQ: I Density @ 15C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.865

So 480 gr will be more like 555 ml I think? Or to be on the safe side actually weigh an empty jug in grams then fill until you get jug weight + 480 grams.

I have to watch this with the engine oil for the old Gileras which is quoted in manuals in grams not cc.
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby 'It must be a .....' » 05 Nov 2018 19:30

[quote][/quote]

Thanks, that's good to know.

When I had my first Camel and no access to any data I measured the oil that came out of the fork legs which was 330 ml.
A couple of years later I got an original MK 1 Camel handbook where it states 333 gr per fork leg; so you can see the logic/error.
Yet having filled several Morini forks (road bikes as well as Camels) over the years and always measuring what comes out has only reinforced this incorrect conclusion.

Although the 333 ml is not critical in terms of lubrication; I will experiment with the oil quantities in the future, measuring the levels from the top of the fork which makes it much easier to alter the oil/air volumes.

Again thanks, Ian
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby fofs216 » 05 Nov 2018 19:43

72degrees wrote:
'It must be a .....' wrote:.
480 ml in each fork leg.
From the 501 Camel (electric start) handbook; 'fill each stem with 480 gr. Castrol TQF or equivalent'


To be pedantic - the specific gravity of Castrol TQ: I Density @ 15C, Relative ASTM D4052 g/ml 0.865

So 480 gr will be more like 555 ml I think? Or to be on the safe side actually weigh an empty jug in grams then fill until you get jug weight + 480 grams.

I have to watch this with the engine oil for the old Gileras which is quoted in manuals in grams not cc.


Great cheers guys, I like the idea of actually weighing the oil to match the 480 gram guideline
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby 'It must be a .....' » 05 Nov 2018 19:49

Thanks, that's good to know.

When I had my first Camel and no access to any data I measured the oil that came out of the fork legs which was 330 ml.
A couple of years later I got an original MK 1 Camel handbook where it states 333 gr per fork leg; so you can see the logic/error.
Yet having filled several Morini forks (road bikes as well as Camels) over the years and always measuring what comes out has only reinforced this incorrect conclusion.

Although the 333 ml is not critical in terms of lubrication; I will experiment with the oil quantities in the future, measuring the levels from the top of the fork which makes it much easier to alter the oil/air volumes.

Again thanks, Ian[/quote]
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby rossguzzi » 29 Jan 2019 12:22

So may I ask, how far from the top of the fork leg should the fluid be ?

Is this the best way to refill with correct amount ?

Cheers.
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby fofs216 » 29 Jan 2019 15:35

Hi Ross,

Looking forward to seeing more pics of your bike when you get it!

Regarding the oil and the answers in this thread, they all relate to the later 501 Camel forks that I believe are slightly bigger than the original mk1 forks and therefore may not be applicable for you.

My Mk1 has later model forks fitted, that said I weighed out the oil and threw it in without measuring the resulting air gap afterwards, sorry!

Cheers,
Jamie
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby 'It must be a .....' » 29 Jan 2019 16:40

MK 1 Camel handbook states 333 gr per fork leg Castrol TQF

Once filled take the weight off the forks so they are fully extended before closing the small Allen air bleed screws in the fork caps; they need the volume of air inside to function properly.

Enjoy your Camel
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby rossguzzi » 29 Jan 2019 16:50

Yeh, sorry didn't realise the 501 and mk1 had different forks.

So anyway, how many cc`s = 333g ?

Cheers,
10 hrs till I get it !
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby MickeyMoto » 29 Jan 2019 18:09

Any mathematicians on here?
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Re: 501 Camel Fork Questions

Postby Ming » 29 Jan 2019 21:08

marzocchi_17.jpg
marzocchi_17.jpg (106.65 KiB) Viewed 109 times


Any help?
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