Oil consumption

[Pat]

After a top end rebuild and new shells, I ran my 350/500 sport in carefully, decent length rides and keeping revs down with occasional bigger fistful, gradually building up towards 7,000rpm. Not unexpectedly she drank a bit of oil first 800ks or so and I expected that to settle down once properly run in. But with 3,000ks since then it's been a pretty consistant 300-350mls required every 800 ks, does that sound about right? The bike is flying and no smoke just seems like a lot to me. This is my first morini. Cheers. Pat.

[corsaro chris]

Hi Pat, and welcome to the MRC if you've not had a hello previously!

It's unusual for any Morini to use that much oil, especially if it has been run in carefully as you describe (see Simon Pancheris' comments in the last issue of ATG). Others more qualified than me can suggest possible reasons, but it's worth checking that you have all the appropriate baffles from the breathers in place, and that you're not losing oil through an undetected leak (although you'd have noticed oil stains on the ground...).

Good luck!

CC

[EVguru]

My Sport uses almost no oil.

You may have been too gentle running it in. Race engines get a just a full dyno pulls to seat the rings. They monitor the crankcase pressure and when it stops dropping the rings are done.

[George 350]

Hi Pat,
This maybe a daft question, but what oil were/ are you using?
If you are using a modern, low friction additivised, fully synthetic, it can vastly increase the bedding in mileage. You need to use something old fashioned, like the original Castrol GTX for example. Look for an API rating of SF-CG or lower as a spec. Almost all oils rated SF-CH or higher contain lots of things aimed at reducing friction which is fine on modern engines but not for our old air-cooled ones.
In terms of consumption, my 350 used no oil whatsoever in 2750 miles riding to Spain and back. That was approx 1500 miles of motorway cruising at 5750-6000rpm, the rest of the miles enjoying myself on the Spanish back roads.
My engine has about 25,000 miles on it since it had new pistons and rings in it. Now almost at 98,000.

As Paul suggests, give it a bit of higher load running and see how/ if it changes.

Regards,
George.

[3potjohn]

My 350 had a bit of a weep from the inner clutch cover recently,nicely onto the rear disc and tyre as it happened but still didn't use much oil even so.

[Pat]

Thanks gents, all views welcome, re running in I followed stuarts advice and it was pretty much what I have done previously on new and old bikes..variety of distances, Town, faster a and b roads. After 750 kms, I dropped the running in oil, washed the screen and put in 3 litres of silkolene 10w40 semi synthetic, Stuart advised that even tho it's a 500 to only put 2.5 litres in. That's the only piece of advice I didn't follow and have kept it at 3. Plugs are clean, no smoke or leaks and bike runs perfectly? I'll just have to keep an eye on it.

[norbert]

You should have followed Stuarts advice: 2,5 l is what you need! Fill 2,5 l in and set a new mark on the dipstick if necesary. Is it possible that you loose the oil through the respiracion tubes of the valve covers or the motor respiracion itsself?

I would use sintetic oil only if the engine had been opened and completely cleaned inside. This modern oils with all their additives remove all the incrusted dirt in the motor and pull it through the crankshaft all the time. I don´t think that we should change to sintetic oil on a motor that worked some tenthousands of km with mineral oil, without cleaning it well and changing the washers.

norbert

[Pat]

Thanks for further information, the top end was completely rebuilt with one new barrel and rebored new pistons etc and new shells and bottom end is clean as a whistle so I have no concerns regarding good quality semi synthetic 10w 40, dry clutch too. Re breathers, I ride most dry days all year round, but have never had more than a teaspoon full of "latte" from the breathers after longish ride. And if mineral is best as original....why not run it at the intended level of 3 litres, that's a genuine question? As an aside, My R1 and my TrX 850 also had appetites for oil, but also never smoked. Any thoughts on mineral vs semi synth, I know these were designed to run on mineral oil but everything being equal I wouldn't want the tyres or helmets of yesteryear! Stadium achiles and a pop on bob heath visor anyone?:oops: wouldn't mind some 70's 5 star fuel tho!

[EVguru]

I have in my hand an original factory hand book for drum braked 'Standard' and 'Sport' models.

The oil capacity is listed as 2.5 litres.

The only place I can find an oil capacity of 3 litres listed for the 350 is in the Harglo service manual. My early 500 handbook does list 3 litres, but the Cagiva era manual lists 2.5 litres for the 501. The extra capacity might have been added for extra cooling, but could have had the reverse effect due to increased churn.

I do recall there might have been a batch of incorrectly marked dipsticks, which could have led to the 3 litre fill.

I find that the extra capacity can lead to the clutch seal leaking if not in perfect condition and/or the side stand is usually used.

The late handbooks and manual list Sint Agip 2000, which is a 10W40 semi synthetic. I've always run semi in my bikes.

[Pat]

Thanks for that Paul, mine is a 1978 350 sport chassis but in 2009 a previous owner had a 500 engine put in. According to the paperwork a whole engine and carbs not just top end. With the engine drained whilst hot and left overnight to fully drain, then refilled it takes 3 litres which just sits on the bottom edge of max on the dipstick. If I ran it on 2.5litres and it "lost" a bit it would be off the bottom of the dipstick, Not ideal. Chassis number is A3/11341. Previous owners Simon Whitaker and Steve Cook. Lots of history but nothing on the origin of the engine.

[norbert]

It´s 2,5 liter, you can believe us! Why don´t you try and observe what happens. Probably you won´t loose that much oil as mentioned before

norbert

[3potjohn]

Well run it with 3L then watch the oil level fall then I suspect it will reach 2.5L and stop falling. That is still a lot of oil.
I use a plastic mik bottle marked at 2.5L to dispense the oil. I have a particularly wobbly funnel so have to be careful.

[settebello]

Interesting (or not) my 500 Camel owners hand book states 3 litres from dry and 2.5 litres for a oil change. My 500 owners hand book on the other hand states 3 litres for an oil change. I've never put more than 2.5 litres in which is plenty and that's after a long drain period and full clean of the filter. How long is your dip stick?

[Pat]

Heya. Dipstick genuine 500 one, just like in the book!
3 litres of oil registers "a gnats cock" ( about 1mm) below the maximum mark and 2.5 litres is just above the minimum mark. Ie, if I run it on 2,5 litres, it only needs to consume 200 mils and it'll be Off the bottom of the dipstick, which is pointless. Other than word of mouth i have seen no written or published data that gives 2.5 litres oil capacity for the 500 (474cc) engine, everything I have read, including performance data states 3 litres.appreciate you guys have had more morini experience which is why I asked the question. But I have ridden and spannerd bikes for for nearly 40 years and to run on less oil than recommended by the manufacturer runs counter intuitive. As I said the bikes a first or second kick starter, is running brilliantly, plugs are clean and no leaks. So no obvious reason for oil thirst. But on the upside, it's a lot less than my old R1!

[norbert]

There are a lot of dipsticks bound (this ones usualy in the Enduros) or straight and a lot of diferent marks. I once have made a foto of them putting the topend in a line (can´t find the foto). You would wonder how many diferent marks you can find although the engine casing is alwways more or less the same. Why should a 500 engine need more oil than a 350? Since 2000 I made 100 000 km with Rocinante, about 70 00 with a 501 motor, and allways with 2,5 l (without extern oil filter). I tried all my dipsticks till I found one that gives me the upper mark at 2,5 l. Before I used another one an have made a new mark after filling in 2,5 l.

In the manual is written that you should adjust valve clearance on a warm motor. Is there anybody doing so?

norbert