500 electronic ignition

Stempy
Posts: 143
Joined: 07 Jul 2020 08:23
Location: Grimsby

500 electronic ignition

Post by Stempy »

Hi
As per title , any complete after market electronic ignitions for sale,

At present I have a NLM replacement one fitted but lost the spark to one of the coils and the other is week so need to do some more diagnostic work ,
So I will be looking for spares or time to upgrade to another system .
Cheers
Stempy
Steve Brown
Posts: 1416
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:44
Location: Leicestershire

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by Steve Brown »

In your position I'd be looking at those transducers being made and marketed in Italy-the ones that include the tacho drive connection.
There were posts on here recently detailing who was making and selling them.
I have used the blue scooter transducers with success and they do have an advance curve, it may not be as wide ranging as the originals or the new ones though.
The digital systems on offer look attractive but I'd prefer to have an upgrade to the charging system too.
All donations to the rest home for old Camels, Leicestershire.
Stempy
Posts: 143
Joined: 07 Jul 2020 08:23
Location: Grimsby

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by Stempy »

Traced no spark to faulty L/H pickup, anyone have a spare?
IMG_4912.jpeg
IMG_4912.jpeg (123.42 KiB) Viewed 4514 times
Cheers
Stempy
mbmm350s
Posts: 673
Joined: 22 Jun 2018 10:18
Location: Reading UK
Location: Berkshire UK

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by mbmm350s »

Hi,
I have a box of spares of these all of which have the similar problems after usage, impossible* to adjust to the tiny clearance needed and one of both of the coil packs is loose, so I would advise not to use, but replace as Steve says with the Luzzi pickup or with a Sachse digital system.

You can mail alexluzzi@gmail.com, in English, and he will help with the pickup and transducers.

*yes some people have been able to get them to work reliably but too much time and effort is needed.

Mark
Stempy
Posts: 143
Joined: 07 Jul 2020 08:23
Location: Grimsby

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by Stempy »

Thanks for the reply, I have some spare parts on the way from a kind morini owner,just been looking at alternatives and came across this system , any one had any experiences?

https://swf-ignitionsystems.nl/product/morini/


Cheers
MickeyMoto
Posts: 2468
Joined: 22 Nov 2008 17:41
Location: Even further oop North

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by MickeyMoto »

Rick,

I have just installed an SWF system on a Strada. I managed to wire the +12 volts via the kill switch, using the original wiring in case I decide to fit the original system. It is a simple kit. A bit of a fiddle to fit the rotor, but easy to set the timing. Once fitted, the bike started on first press of the starter. Haven't ridden it yet.

The circuit board is 'bare' not encapsulated, so need to ensure the wiring hole is blocked. There is an electronic tach feed, too. Not sure if the coils are waterproof. It uses 1k ohm plug caps and resistor plugs.

I'm looking forward to getting on the road and trying it when spring arrives!
BarryCambs
Posts: 26
Joined: 23 Sep 2019 12:49
Location: Cambridge

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by BarryCambs »

I've just fitted an SWF ignition on my 250 2C and I'm beyond happy with it! Easy to fit, easy to adjust and the bike is transformed, pulling much better throughout the rev range. All the original wiring is still on the bike, if I wanted to go back, but I can't think of any reason I would.

The kit comes complete with coils, brackets and loom and was considerably cheaper than the Sache version. Anne who runs SWF is really nice to deal with and couldn't be more helpful.
Barry
Stempy
Posts: 143
Joined: 07 Jul 2020 08:23
Location: Grimsby

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by Stempy »

Some great information , one thing to consider is to fit a relay to negate the old wiring and use the old coil wire to trigger the relay then you will get the full 12V feed
coil_diagram.jpg
coil_diagram.jpg (23.72 KiB) Viewed 1243 times
MickeyMoto
Posts: 2468
Joined: 22 Nov 2008 17:41
Location: Even further oop North

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by MickeyMoto »

BarryCambs wrote: 22 Apr 2024 20:58 I've just fitted an SWF ignition on my 250 2C and I'm beyond happy with it! Easy to fit, easy to adjust and the bike is transformed, pulling much better throughout the rev range. All the original wiring is still on the bike, if I wanted to go back, but I can't think of any reason I would.

The kit comes complete with coils, brackets and loom and was considerably cheaper than the Sache version. Anne who runs SWF is really nice to deal with and couldn't be more helpful.
Barry
You may wish to return the bike to original if you sell the bike. You can then transfer the system to your next Morini!
MickeyMoto
Posts: 2468
Joined: 22 Nov 2008 17:41
Location: Even further oop North

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by MickeyMoto »

Stempy wrote: 23 Apr 2024 06:30 Some great information , one thing to consider is to fit a relay to negate the old wiring and use the old coil wire to trigger the relay then you will get the full 12V feed

coil_diagram.jpg
This is my next project after I have road tested the bike. I only have 0.1 volts drop from battery to coils at the moment, but more testing required. I took the +12 volts from the switched 12 volts at the fuse box and used the block under the front of the tank as a connecting point for the SWF loom. The system is designed to use the fuel tap supply at the block. I can easily fit a relay into the system. I also fused the system as the fuse behind is the fuse in the cylinder.

Maybe a diagram is required! The kill switch, obviously, is now back to front- off is on and run is off. That'll confuse the buggers!
BarryCambs
Posts: 26
Joined: 23 Sep 2019 12:49
Location: Cambridge

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by BarryCambs »

I can't see I'd get rid of the 250 to be honest. It's one of the sweetest things I've ridden and I have the Guzzi for big bike thrills. Rather depressingly, it's also light enough to carry on riding when the Guzzi is just too heavy for an aging body.

The reason I went for an aftermarket set up, was frustration not being able to get spares off the shelf at the moment. Having waited weeks for the transducers, which cured the timing issue, it then transpired the pickup was weak and they seem to be pretty much unavailable for the foreseeable. The cost of transducers and pickup was more than the replacement system and my worry was, even if I could get the parts, the stator would be waiting its turn to go. I also have 12v electrics now as an added bonus!

It could be converted back to standard in about 30 mins. The 250 has manual fuel taps, but the voltage sensing wire from for the old regulator/rectifier turned out to be the perfect length to power the new coils and I've tapped the rest of the wires back out of sight in the loom.
MickeyMoto
Posts: 2468
Joined: 22 Nov 2008 17:41
Location: Even further oop North

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by MickeyMoto »

Sounds reasonable.

I changed as I was having problems and decided the stator need a rewind. Looking at the cost (if I could find anybody to do it anyway) I thought I might as well buy a new system as usually with the Law of Sod once one things breaks other components will follow.

Anyway, if I am happy with the system I could always offer up the old components as rocking horse poo, make a fortune and retire to somewhere warm, like Glasgow. :)
Steve Brown
Posts: 1416
Joined: 12 Nov 2007 23:44
Location: Leicestershire

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by Steve Brown »

Glad to hear you are having success with the SWF system. I had high hopes for it but struggled to get the timing right. The only adjustment was by rotating the trigger rotor on the camshaft. I think it would have been better if the back plate had adjustment slots like the original parts. Anne did send replacements and was patient with me-up to a point. His final analysis was I wasn't able to kickstart it fast enough! Obviously not the problem here as with the unit set for a late spark it would start very easily. When I strobed and adjusted the max rpm advance I got a low RPM advance that was way off and the bugger would just kick back! If you are finding it easy to set up then perhaps the set is now modified in some way?
As said, I was sent replacement parts to try and I promise that I really can read instructions as well as kickstart bikes!
OK, the Camel can be a challenge when the rut/leg combination is wrong! :roll:
You should all have a summer of good riding to look forward to now, and I would like to read your reports-in ATG maybe?
All donations to the rest home for old Camels, Leicestershire.
BarryCambs
Posts: 26
Joined: 23 Sep 2019 12:49
Location: Cambridge

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by BarryCambs »

That's a shame. Is the ignition still on the bike, or did you change to something else? I've not double checked mine with the strobe yet, but it does at last tick over again and when I took it out on the motorway yesterday, it's found another 10 mph from somewhere and will rev pretty much to the red line in top, so it can't be far out. The curve for the 250 turned out to be the same as the 350, so the system wasn't modified in any way.

I took the circuit board to the pub before I fitted it to show to a friend who was an electronic engineer by trade and worked on electronic ignitions at some stage. He was very impressed by the build quality and said it's using a standard Motorola automotive timing chip, which is apparently a good thing. I was intrigued to know how it could work with with one sensor for two cylinders given the uneven timing intervals. He said it initially calibrates itself by calculating the relative time between the slots passing the sensor, so it knows which one is for each cylinder. I wonder (and it is only a guess) if it struggles to do the initial calculation if the engine doesn't turn over a few revolutions at a good speed? I'm not sure I've ever seen a Camel in the flesh, but looking at a picture, if it's anywhere near as awkward to kick over as something like a Bultaco, maybe that's some of the problem?

I'll be interested to know how the Strada performs on it's test run.
MickeyMoto
Posts: 2468
Joined: 22 Nov 2008 17:41
Location: Even further oop North

Re: 500 electronic ignition

Post by MickeyMoto »

It'll be a while yet, I am recovering from a tendon operation and can't get my foot on the foot peg, although things are improving.

Steve, I agree with the rotor problem. It would be better to use the existing key on the cam and slot the circuit board. The ease of getting the timing correct (set pms1 on compression stroke and turn rotor until red light extinguishes) but holding the rotor whilst tightening was a problem.

I have not tried kick starting, as I cannot get a good swing whilst loading my bad leg on the floor. I'll give it a go tomorrow.
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