Kickstarting Problem

[JonnyP]

Hi all, I'm wondering if anyone can please help with this issue?
I've just completed a total restoration of my 1979 500, including an engine rebuild. The problem is when trying to kickstart after she has been standing overnight (or even just for a few hours!), the kickstart feels like there is a 'resistance' all the way down its travel, but it does not turn the engine over. This is the same 'resistance' feeling whether I kick slowly or sharply- the engine still does not turn over.
The only way to start her is to run and bump her off. After that, ie at a petrol station and the engine is warm, the kickstart works fine.
In all other respects, the clutch works fine too, smooth take off etc, and the engine runs well.
I tried tying the clutch lever back overnight, thinking that the clutch might be sticking, but the kickstart feeling is still the same, and I have to run and bump her off. I'd be very grateful for any suggestions- many thanks!

[Fastmongrel]

No expert I have only had mine 6 months but the only way I can kick start my Strada is to do the neutral finding tapdance, put it on sidestand and not touching the clutch lever give it a steady swinging push with right boot. Dont stamp on it, it's more of a "would you like to go for a ride" prod not a "start you bastard" kick.

If like me your mostly used to Japanese bikes then it's a good idea to forget everything you learnt Morinis are different.

[morini_tom]

Never ever kickstart a Morini on its sidestand.

You risk at best bending the kickstart bracket or quite commonly damaging your lower left frame tube.

[JonnyP]

Agreed Tom. I feel fairly sure that the problem lies with clutch adjustment (shims) but the clutch actually works fine, once on the move. The main issue is still that the kickstart won't turn over the engine, after it has been standing overnight.

['It must be a .....']

Clutch slip on kick starting will be familiar to many BSA unit single owners again not a problem once running
Best to check the clutch adjustment, plate thick/trueness, plate order, spring tension etc
Not a design fault as in the BSA so it shouldn't be difficult to fix?
I'm guessing it is a 5 speed engine which has a different kick starting ratio from the later 6 speed 500

Good luck, Ian

[JonnyP]

Thanks Ian, yes indeed she is a 5 speed. I was reaching a similar 'clutch issue' conclusion myself, but it's good to hear it from someone else with experience! I'll strip the clutch, give her a clean and play around with the shims.

[3potjohn]

And the clutch arm adjustment: About 4 mm of slack at the bar lever end no bad thing. See Blue book.
I always do the clutch springs up fully then just turn back a tiny bit. Others may disagree.
John

[JonnyP]

Thanks John, always good to check the basics.

[MickeyMoto]

Are you sure the resistance is not actually the engine turning over and it just does not start when cold?

Pull in clutch and as the kick-start acts on the gearbox input then there is no resistance. Let it out and if there is resistance then it is turning over the engine.

Remove a plug and listen.

I believe the shim is to correctly space the clutch drum. The adjustment is done at the operating arm and the clutch lever. Have you removed the clutch cover to see what is happening?

[Fastmongrel]

Never ever kickstart a Morini on its sidestand.

You risk at best bending the kickstart bracket or quite commonly damaging your lower left frame tube.

I meant to say centre stand but had a brain fart. I will remember not to do it on the sidestand in future though.

Wouldn't the bike get in the way if you were trying to kick it on the side stand I have to be careful kicking it on the centrestand I nearly took the exhaust shield off when the buckle on my boot got jammed in it. Italians must all have feet like ballet dancers my size 12s barely give me enough room

[3potjohn]

I had the kickstart go up my trouser leg. Only the once of course.

[MickeyMoto]

What you do in the privacy of your own garage, John, is entirely up to you!

Could have been worse, could have been a ferret.

[mbmm350s]

Hi Jonny,

Can I check one thing about the resistance when kickstarting, did you make sure to use the correct gasket on the clutch cover side, if the gasket is omitted i.e you used paste, or is too thin exactly the sort of resistance you mention can be felt.

Mike mentioned to pull the clutch in, then the kickstarter mechanism is disconnected from the primary drive. The kickstarter should turn very freely, If there is still resistance check the above point, another problem is that the kick start is clamped to far towards the engine onto the spline, please check that there is clearance. And finally though probably not in your case the starter spindle can be rusted into the casing bush.

However since you say you don't think the engine is turning over,then since the kickstarter is connected to the gearbox ,which has to be in neutral, and drives through the clutch to the primary drive, only clutch slip as Ian mentions would be a problem, in this case you won't feel the compression come and go, it will be more a constant feeling resistance, I am expecting this is the most likely explanation. In any engine it is much better to have plenty of slack in the clutch cable to avoid clutch slip.
Since the clutch needs to be fully engaged when kickstarting (unlike many bikes) the shimming can make no difference whatsoever, as clutch inner and outer are rotating as one with the primary drive.

Does the bike start on the electric start?

Those with wet clutches as per 250 2C usually pull the clutch lever in and kick a few times after machine has been long standing to free the plates which have a tendency to glue themselves together.

Mark

[JonnyP]

Thanks all for your much valued feedback. My problem is now solved - all along it was the clutch slipping when trying to kickstart (but never a problem when you bumped her off...) I'd had a cracked oil gallery in the clutch casing previously, and though I'd replaced the casing, the clutch had been thoroughly soaked in oil once too often!
I replaced the main oil seal and all the clutch plates, now she's exactly as she should be. Thanks again