1986 350 K2 front brake information.

[themoudie]

Having posted a request for info under the title 'Front disc brake questions' and not received any specific data I did some research!

First of all, DO NOT BELIEVE BRAKE PAD MANUFACTURER'S CATALOGUES! This may appear a severe critique, but having ordered SBS brake pads, using their recommended part numbers, for both the original front and rear calipers on my K2 and not received the correct items, I needed to sort things out.

SBS list in their on-line and paper catalogue that their SBS 606HF Ceramic pads are suitable for the rear caliper (This is confusing, as they are described as "Front Ceramic Brake Pads" in the catalogue!). They also list their SBS 560HF Ceramic pads as being suitable for the front calipers. So I ordered one set of SBS 606HF and two sets of SBS 560HF that arrived very promptly.

I stripped out the rear caliper and noted that the replacement pads didn't have the central metal tang, in which the anti-squeal, stainless steel spring sits. However, in every other way they matched the pads that I had removed and everything went together and worked.

On to the front calipers. On stripping out the pads they appeared very different from the SBS 560HF that I had ordered. Being longer, wider, with no two 45degree tangs/lugs sticking out from the bottom of the pad, as on the SBS 560HF pads.! Again, no central metal tang, in which the anti-squeal, stainless steel spring sits. Upon sliding the new pads into the caliper, the tangs/lugs held the pads lower in the caliper and the holes through which the pins hold the pads in the caliper didn't align.

I then visited the EBC, VESRAH, web catalogues, with no joy. EBC do not list a pad for the K2 front calipers, they used to list a pad FA98 or FA098 as being suitable, but this is of similar dimension to the incorrect SBS (560HF) pad. The Vesrah catalogue showed a pad of similar design (SD-928) to the incorrect SBS one. NEWFREN I believe were the pads sold by NLM (FD0028) for Morini front calipers and they too have the same profile as the incorrect SBS one. I suspect that the pads with tangs/lugs are suitable for earlier MM 350 Sports? MDITALIA do not offer a description/image of the pads that they are selling for Morini, apart from being "soft". So, take your chance!

Ferodo's online catalogue finally came up with some correct information. Not only did they list/illustrate pads with dimensions matching those of the pads that I had removed, but they also cross-reference other manufacturer's equivalent pads. I have checked the FERODO (FDB696), EBC (incorrect!), NEWFREN (FD0069), SBS (605HF), VESRAH (VD-930) pad dimension on the manufacturer's sites and all appear to be of similar dimension to the unamed pads that I have removed from my front calipers. Pad friction materials vary!

Link to FERODO online catalogue: 2019_FERODO_online_catalogue

So, my supplier is going to replace the (560HF) pads that SBS incorrectly catalogued and supply me with my choice of SBS 605HF pads.

Once, I have fitted the SBS Ceramic pads to all the calipers, I will report back on their efficacy in the dry and more importantly, under wet, cold conditions that afflict us up here.

I hope this helps other K2 owners.

My regards, Bill

[MickeyMoto]

Hi Bill,

I have a K1 and believe the calipers are the same. I got the front pads from NLM and are made by Bendix. I researched the rear and ordered a pair of EBC pads and they only had a single pin hole. I sent my calipers to Ducati Paddy for refurbishment and he came up with a set of rear pads, and as you say, had no tang for the springs. I am using the ones that came with the bike and had plenty of life. These had Newfren written on them.

I am a big fan of Ferodo pads, and try and source them for my bikes, so your research is very welcome. Thank you.

I cannot vouch for the pads in a British summer as the bike isn't on the road yet, but hopeful what I have will be ok. One thing, I think the K2 disc material may be different to the K1 so the comparison of brake performance may not be valid.

Mike.

[Richard]

I have been having exactly the same problem for my 1986 K2. So far I have had to send 2 eBay purchases back.
When I bought the bike the fronts had Ferodo pads marked FA 98 (or FA 098 ?), unfortunately a previous owner had the habit of coating the discs with WD40 to stop them rusting, and then wiping it off before a ride. This did not have a beneficial effect on the pads!
Replacements from NLM were F Bendix MA 105, R Bendix 106. Fitted OK except for the lack of central tab on the rears.
Have been trying to get spares with similar results to Bill. Ended up ordering some Lucas ones from a German supplier who then said he didn't have them after all and would I like some SBS instead. So I said yes, please get me the SBS 560 HF. He pointed out that these were not a swap for the Lucas ones I had asked for and I needed SBS 113 HF, which he has now ordered. These show on the SBS site as the same dimensions as they show for the 605 HF which you mention (although the picture looks odd).
What a confusing mess!
Will report on here if they fit; have not much confidence that they will!

[themoudie]

Aye Mike and Richard,

Pleased to have opened up a useful thread.

Mike I suspect that the spring is to prevent the pads chattering in the caliper and if the ceramic pads are all they are cracked up to be the springs won't be necessary. Maybe your NEWFREN pads on the rear are no bad, but as you can see from the un-named pads in all three of my calipers they appear to be polished granite!

Richard Are you sure that the "Ferodo pads" were marked FA98 or FA 098? That part number matches a now redundant EBC part number, not a Ferodo part number. As for coating your chrome plated discs with WD40 to stop them rusting. AAAAAaaagh!!!! Takes all sorts to fill an A&E ward.

As for the SBS 113HF pads? I attach an image from the SBS catalogue and they are supposed to be for a Malaguti F10 50cc scooter, a Peugot SV Roland Garros and Sport, both 50cc scooters and all made 1992-3. I am not sure why your German supplier suggested that these will fit. Hey ho, time will tell.

If after discussion with my supplier,we arrive at a satisfactory resolution to this conundrum, I'll post up their details and fore warn them!

My regards, Bill

[Richard]

They were FA 98 or FA 098, but must have been EBC then.
Sorry, my mistake, the ones suggested and ordered by the German supplier were in fact SBS 133 HF. If you look at their online catalogue it shows the correct shape and dimensions; however the picture of the pack is not reassuring! Cannot tell from the picture the dimensions of the friction material.
I have emailed the supplier with the code SBS 605 HF and asked him which he thinks is correct. He must really be getting fed up with this order and thinking it is not worth the trouble.

[themoudie]

Aye Richard,

It would appear that the difference between the SBS 133HF that your German supplier is providing and the SBS 605HF that my supplier is sourcing, lies in the composition of the friction material. The SBS 133HF pads being a carbon fibre/ceramic material composit and the SBS 605HF pads being ceramic material alone. How significant this difference is I suspect is down to the user. Although, theoretically there will be performance differences.

Both pad types have the same thickness specified and if the metal part of the pad is made from the same material as the other SBS pads I have, this will be ~2mm thick. Therefore, by deduction, there will be ~5mm of friction material on both pad types.

We shall see.

My regards, Bill

[Richard]

Thanks for pointing that out, Bill.
I mostly ride old British bikes, especially long stroke singles, and they are not exactly brilliant in the stopping department. The K2 has far better brakes than any of my machines and I expect that I will be happy if the friction material is wood. As long as they fit they should be OK for me. As I said before, these are spares, and it may therefore be some time before I get to try them but I will measure for fit including distance between the holes.

[themoudie]

Aye Richard,

I have a mixture of Italian leading shoe drum brakes and mid '80's Japanese disc set ups! I do not expect the Morini's to be as good as the Japanese brakes, but should equal the Grimeca double drum, single leading shoe brakes. The beauty of four stroke singles, I used to own AJS and Matchy singles, is the engine braking and whilst the Japanese short stroke singles may not be so strong, the Ducati singles are pretty good.

My supplier contacted earlier this evening and after speaking to SBS in the UK the SBS 605 HF pads are having to be sent across from the SBS distributor in Sweden! This means that there maybe an up to two week delivery time. I'll post updates.

My regards, Bill

[Daddy Dom]

Hi Gents,
I'll join in the fray as I've been trying to source correct front pads a number of ways. Mine are the ones on the left in Bill's original post but my bike is a 1983 K1. Trouble is, as we've found out, too many sellers are posting generic, incorrect photos and dimensions for our calipers, which is a two-pin Grimeca 1025, according to the info on Storzperf.com. Additionally, Newfren's search engine does not even list my bike.

It didn't help that the code has rubbed off all my old Ferodo pads as I knew I was using those on my chrome discs. Now I'm running Pantah cast-iron discs and can't remember if I swapped pads to suit. Possibly I did.

I'm pretty confident my old Ferodo pads say FD 354 - not a current Ferodo number but I have more info below. An old Newfren pad says GG 512 on the back, which doesn't tally with any other current codes.

So Mdina's "we'll tell you when these are in stock" failed to notify me their soft pads were in and, frustratingly, I just did an order so missed out on those.

Anyway, Newfren's NZ importer says he can source the organic compound FD0069 that I need. I can also get the Ferodo organic compound pads (Platinum series) locally, too. They're called FDB696P. That Ferodo code is nothing like the code on my old ones.
https://www.wakularacing.net/index.php/ ... num-detail

Hope that helps,
Dom

[themoudie]

Aye Dom,

The Part number you quote for the Ferodo pads that you can obtain as FDB696P is not disimilar to the FDB696 published in the link that I have made to the 2019 Ferodo catalogue in my initial post on the subject. The "P" at the end of the part number will be for "Platinum". If you select an adjacent Ferodo Part Number (FDB352) to that of your old Ferodo Part Number (FDB354) in my link and then note that FDB352 is available in 3 different friction materials. Then click on the "Material Comparison" red button with a white exclamation mark in the centre. This displays a bar chart comparison of the 3 friction materials and of the specific uses for each material.

From the chart the "Platinum" material is described as organic for road use, with good all-round braking properties.

Still awaiting a notification from my SBS supplier of my orders arrival from Sweden.

My regards, Bill

[Richard]

Aye Dom,

The Part number you quote for the Ferodo pads that you can obtain as FDB696P is not disimilar to the FDB696 published in the link that I have made to the 2019 Ferodo catalogue in my initial post on the subject. The "P" at the end of the part number will be for "Platinum". If you select an adjacent Ferodo Part Number (FDB352) to that of your old Ferodo Part Number (FDB354) in my link and then note that FDB352 is available in 3 different friction materials. Then click on the "Material Comparison" red button with a white exclamation mark in the centre. This displays a bar chart comparison of the 3 friction materials and of the specific uses for each material.

From the chart the "Platinum" material is described as organic for road use, with good all-round braking properties.

Still awaiting a notification from my SBS supplier of my orders arrival from Sweden.

My regards, Bill

Have you received them yet? I'm still waiting for mine!
Richard

[Daddy Dom]

On sending SBS a picture of my pads they said they did not make that type.
So I'll be very interested to see which type of pad Mdina supplies.

[themoudie]

Aye Dom and Richard,

My apologies for the delay in posting updates to this thread.

I did receive the SBS 605HF pads that I had ordered from BCT Motorcycles, they took a couple of days longer than the 12 days, but my order arrived well packed and in good order.

Fitting the SBS 605HF pads was straight forward, apart from the tang on the upper face of the pad in which the anti-rattle spring sits. This needed easing with a small screwdriver so that the spring would sit down into the slot made by the tang being displaced toward the brake piston. Just a tweak, not the 'Grand Canyon'! Everything was re-assembled and I was ready to take the machine out for a wee bedding in run.

BUT, for some reason I know not "WHY?", the throttle had become jammed! Put in the workshop from a run, smooth as silk, go for a run, jammed solid Consequently, I traced the problem to the left hand carburettor and what with life moving on and the central heating boiler breaking down after 33 years, I still haven't managed that bedding in run. The fuel tank is off, along with the air filter housing and both carbs, but I haven't opened the carbs up and they appear manky. The left-hand carb is definitely jammed. I will post a further installment once I have completed a bedding in run and maybe add a thread about what has caused the left-hand carb to jam.

Contact details for my SBS pad supplier. Email: info@bctmotorcycles.co.uk They also have an eBay shop: "bctmotorcycles" and are knowledgeable. "Auld Andy" is the man whom dealt with my order and the initial sorting out of the catalogue 'confusion', inaccuracies.

Good health, Bill